Drug deaths now kill more Americans than traffic fatalities - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TwitchKitty · #46 09-29-2011, 12:49 PM

That is why I said google, it's all there if you bother to look.

aklim · #47 09-29-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

That is why I said google, it's all there if you bother to look.

I prefer to use Epocrates to check up for adverse drug effects if I have to. If I really have to "go up the town", I ask a friend who has access to research papers with a paid subscription thru the college since I am too cheap to buy a subscription and I don't use it enough to justify the cost. Generally, these jobs are farmed out to the wife since she has the expertise to understand it and I don't want to bother. It isn't my bag any more than mechanical stuff is her bag.

As with any course of therapy, the prescriber has to evaluate the risk vs reward thing. Every drug has a risk and a reward. How much of each is based on your personal circumstance. If you are thinking "I can take this pill and life is good", think again. It needs monitoring. You cannot "take and forget". In a nursing home, the wife is comfortable with prescribing certain therapies. To a new patient, not so because she might not be able to monitor and assure compliance. If you have a lazy practitioner and/or a non-compliant patient, most drugs are too dangerous. Take CLKMan's wife who took aspirin or tylenol several times daily for years. No monitoring. Bad things happen. Lack or monitoring and/or patient not bringing it up to the doctor can cause problems. That does not mean the drug is bad. It means the patient and/or prescriber is bad for not doing what they should be doing.

elchivito · #48 09-29-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

Yes. Healthy people take no pharmaceuticals. Pharmaceuticals are poisons. Take pharmacueticals and you are less than healthy. If you are not healthy, do not operate machinery. Do not endanger others.

The myth that pharmacueticals make people healthy is PR and a lie and very, very profitable for a few at the expense of many.

If only things were as simple as you'd like them to be. While I do believe prescription drugs are overused by many and overprescribed by lots of doctors, I'm alive today thanks to them. I nearly died multiple times from severe asthma attacks in childhood. Maybe there was some magic herb that could have saved me, but my grandmother, who used herbs for everything, was the first to call for me to be taken to the hospital. When a 3 year old is becoming cyanotic and has passed out, chances are some herbal tea isn't going to save him.
Were it not for pharmaceuticals, I wouldn't have made it to adulthood. Today, at retirement age, I don't take any prescription meds , although I do carry a rescue inhaler and epinephrine for emergencies. I'm healthy as a horse. Drugs can be lifesavers. Drugs can be killers. Bombastic declarations not withstanding.

aklim · #49 09-29-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

If only things were as simple as you'd like them to be.

While I do believe prescription drugs are overused by many and overprescribed by lots of doctors,

It is when you believe in conspiracies. Take that guy out and life is good.

Then it is the fault of the prescriber and/or patient. No drug or therapy will help that if the patient is non-compliant or the prescribe does not exercise due dilligence.

TwitchKitty · #50 09-30-2011, 09:00 AM

Nobody said anything is simple. I wish more problems were simple. except for maybe a few people who post way too much on the internet should get lives outside and off their duffs.

Modern medicine does save lives every day, granted. Modern medicine also needlessly kills many people every day and in many ways not commonly recognized. The cost/benefit to society is way out of kilter all the same.

Once again there is a list of 50 or 100 drugs out there that you couldn't get physicians to take if you held the doctors down and forced the drugs on them. This isn't just a personal preference, this is endemic.

Nobody said anything about conspiracies but I have noticed that people who lack the capacity to think for themselves tend to use that term more often than normal people. I have also seen the use of that term by a few people who post way too much on the internet should get lives outside and off their duffs.

aklim · #51 09-30-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

Once again there is a list of 50 or 100 drugs out there that you couldn't get physicians to take if you held the doctors down and forced the drugs on them. This isn't just a personal preference, this is endemic.

Nobody said anything about conspiracies but I have noticed that people who lack the capacity to think for themselves tend to use that term more often than normal people.

I have also seen the use of that term by a few people who post way too much on the internet should get lives outside and off their duffs.

Yes it is a personal preference. Unless you can get the drug classified as a Schedule I drug, that is. There are also secrets your insurance agent doesn't want you to know or secrets your bank doesn't want you to know. Before you say it, the list is not perfect but I don't see a better option.

Fortunately, we have you to help us think.

Like yourself, perhaps? Oh, wait, you have once again found a perfect balance.

TwitchKitty · #52 10-02-2011, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I prefer to use Epocrates to check up for adverse drug effects if I have to. If I really have to "go up the town", I ask a friend who has access to research papers with a paid subscription thru the college since I am too cheap to buy a subscription and I don't use it enough to justify the cost. Generally, these jobs are farmed out to the wife since she has the expertise to understand it and I don't want to bother. It isn't my bag any more than mechanical stuff is her bag.

As with any course of therapy, the prescriber has to evaluate the risk vs reward thing. Every drug has a risk and a reward. How much of each is based on your personal circumstance. If you are thinking "I can take this pill and life is good", think again. It needs monitoring. You cannot "take and forget". In a nursing home, the wife is comfortable with prescribing certain therapies. To a new patient, not so because she might not be able to monitor and assure compliance. If you have a lazy practitioner and/or a non-compliant patient, most drugs are too dangerous. Take CLKMan's wife who took aspirin or tylenol several times daily for years. No monitoring. Bad things happen. Lack or monitoring and/or patient not bringing it up to the doctor can cause problems. That does not mean the drug is bad. It means the patient and/or prescriber is bad for not doing what they should be doing.

There you go. You don't know but you post as if you do. You also don't know the background of other people but you post as if you assume you do.

The thought that medicine is an exact science and that you can trust your health to practitioners is very dangerous and very foolish. Pharmaceutical companies train practitioners to be little more than sales advocates.

aklim · #53 10-02-2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

There you go. You don't know but you post as if you do. You also don't know the background of other people but you post as if you assume you do.

The thought that medicine is an exact science and that you can trust your health to practitioners is very dangerous and very foolish.

Pharmaceutical companies train practitioners to be little more than sales advocates.

I don't know as much as a trained person so no, I don't consider that I know. Do you? What is your training? Physician or medical researcher?

Never said that it is an exact science. IT is about as inexact as I am willing to accept as a science. I trust my personal health practitioner since she has something to lose if something bad happens to me. That is why all treatments will have to be agreed to by her.

I'm sure you are right about that. Found the location of the 500mpg carburetor yet? Please, they give you the material and it might behoove you to try sell the drug but training you specifically for that? I have several good friend that work in the industry that haven't received such training yet. Or perhaps they haven't reached the "double secret level" yet.

TwitchKitty · #54 10-02-2011, 05:23 PM

You have no unique line of information into the industry and yet you act like you actually know something. My training is non of your business but I am in a position to have seen some first hand experience on the subject.

The idea that people with multiple prescriptions have no side effects that might compromise their capacity to safely operate machinery is laughable. They aren't even safe to stay at home alone.

Police now answer more calls due to legal pharmaceuticals than illegal drugs. The industry is out of control and worse than illegal drugs ever were.

Many health care workers are sociopaths and have no remorse for what they do. Diagnostic skills are sorely lacking in the group.

Maybe we should race potheads, boozers and oxycontin users and see who has the best reflexes, all losers, demolition derby.

aklim · #55 10-02-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

You have no unique line of information into the industry and yet you act like you actually know something. My training is non of your business but I am in a position to have seen some first hand experience on the subject.

The idea that people with multiple prescriptions have no side effects that might compromise their capacity to safely operate machinery is laughable. They aren't even safe to stay at home alone.

Police now answer more calls due to legal pharmaceuticals than illegal drugs. The industry is out of control and worse than illegal drugs ever were.

Many health care workers are sociopaths and have no remorse for what they do. Diagnostic skills are sorely lacking in the group.

Maybe we should race potheads, boozers and oxycontin users and see who has the best reflexes, all losers, demolition derby.

IOW, you have no first hand knowledge of what is going on besides some idea that a sinister cabal is responsible for all the ills in life. The sales reps don't know squat about the drugs. They are PR people and organize dinners, talks, dog walks, moon trips, etc, etc. They hire a physician and give him some papers and he can answer some questions at the talk. Been to quite a few of them myself. Know a few speakers and they definitely are not trained any more than Tiger Woods was trained about Tag Heuer watches. They simply present slides and answer questions and go back to their regular duties.

Every drug has a potential side effect. Nobody, not even your super secret societies with dark knowledge can tell you what each drug will definitely do, much less in concert.

But is it misuse by the patient? Besides, you try a drug and it can have side effects. There is NO FREE LUNCH. If you want a 100% free of problem drug, take nothing, not even water since enough water can kill you by screwing up your balance like one girl had from a water drinking contest.

Right. Because they are in a race to take over the world, one patient at a time. Sorry, bad things can happen in every field. IF you want to have someone regret everything that didn't go as planned, nobody would be able to do any job whatsoever. You do the best you can and hope for the best. If you want a god, pray to one.

That is something we can agree on.

TwitchKitty · #56 10-03-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I prefer to use Epocrates to check up for adverse drug effects if I have to. If I really have to "go up the town", I ask a friend who has access to research papers with a paid subscription thru the college since I am too cheap to buy a subscription and I don't use it enough to justify the cost. Generally, these jobs are farmed out to the wife since she has the expertise to understand it and I don't want to bother. It isn't my bag any more than mechanical stuff is her bag.

As with any course of therapy, the prescriber has to evaluate the risk vs reward thing. Every drug has a risk and a reward. How much of each is based on your personal circumstance. If you are thinking "I can take this pill and life is good", think again. It needs monitoring. You cannot "take and forget". In a nursing home, the wife is comfortable with prescribing certain therapies. To a new patient, not so because she might not be able to monitor and assure compliance. If you have a lazy practitioner and/or a non-compliant patient, most drugs are too dangerous. Take CLKMan's wife who took aspirin or tylenol several times daily for years. No monitoring. Bad things happen. Lack or monitoring and/or patient not bringing it up to the doctor can cause problems. That does not mean the drug is bad. It means the patient and/or prescriber is bad for not doing what they should be doing.

Knew people involved in all levels of medical research. Bad research was hidden, gotta get that next grant. Can't admit that last grant was a waste. Don't have time to feed the animals and don't have time to clean up after them anyway. Just log what they want to see. If you don't feed them you don't have to clean up after them.

You need to believe because you need to respect the people you know, I know better. I won't even take an aspirin.

News Blog: Deaths from avoidable medical error more than double in past decade, investigation shows

Quote:

Preventable medical mistakes and infections are responsible for about 200,000 deaths in the U.S. each year,

Even if they were working with good information they would screw it up anyway. Stay away from the hospital if you want to be healthy.

sjh · #57 10-03-2011, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

. ....

Off topic. I put something up for you by Prof MacDonald regarding the earlier Fed Reserve thread.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/2802063-post7.html

aklim · #58 10-03-2011, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

Knew people involved in all levels of medical research. Bad research was hidden, gotta get that next grant. Can't admit that last grant was a waste. Don't have time to feed the animals and don't have time to clean up after them anyway. Just log what they want to see. If you don't feed them you don't have to clean up after them.

You need to believe because you need to respect the people you know, I know better.

I won't even take an aspirin.

News Blog: Deaths from avoidable medical error more than double in past decade, investigation shows

Even if they were working with good information they would screw it up anyway. Stay away from the hospital if you want to be healthy.

No kidding. Who would have thought of that. EVERYBODY I know of will try to hide their mistakes if they can. Why do you assume the medical profession is different. Until you can remove the human from the equation, you are going to get that happening. When you speed, do you go to the cops and confess? If you drive drunk, do you confess? IF I made a mistake at my something and I was going to be punished, of course that is incentive to hide it. Do YOU advertise your mistakes? To be honest, I don't. If I refuse to do that, what makes the researcher, medical or anything want to expose himself? Are you implying that medicine is a holy institution that should be held to different standards?

No I don't. I already told my wife that if she took a mental health degree, there is no way I would go to her graduation or even admit that she has such a qualification since I don't believe in psychology any more than the voodoo witch.

Lets see how long you can keep that up if you broke your leg. Do call me over to watch.

Without knowing the change in medical procedures and adjusting for complexity, it is about as useful as the media's "Record Profits" for the oil companies. 10% isn't as sexy as 40 billion in the last quarter.

If you want perfection, try Utopia.

TwitchKitty · #59 10-04-2011, 11:18 AM

Not talking about mistakes, just apathetic BS. Medical research is just a formality in many cases.

Pharmocracy: How Corrupt Deals and Misguided Medical Regulations Are Bankrupting America - and What to Do About It

Gotta search for the book, can't link to amazon these days.

This is the last book I heard of in a long list of books that expose the Pharmaceutical industry's practices. The industry is a blight on humanity.

aklim · #60 10-04-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

Not talking about mistakes, just apathetic BS. Medical research is just a formality in many cases.

The industry is a blight on humanity.

Again, what is it you expect of medicine? That they care about you more than McDonnalds? Why is medicine such a holy institution to you? It is a BUSINESS, nothing more and nothing less. I expect no more apathy from them than a Subway or McDonnalds.

Give me a break. Humanity? Really? Look at all the evil things that have been done by humanity. Even the animals are able to come closer to humanity by nature than we can ever hope. An industry exists to make money for itself. If you benefit, so be it. We have attempted to sue the industry and many others and make them responsible for our stupidity so why is it so bad when they try to get ahead in their own fashion?