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Yak 09-30-2011 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim (Post 2800917)
2 Are passenger vehicles required to have EDRs? No. They aren't mandatory but many automakers choose to include them in their cars. In August 2006, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued an EDR rule that will apply to 2013 and later models. The rule standardizes the information EDRs collect and makes retrieving the data easier. Devices defined as EDRs must record 15 data elements, including vehicle deceleration, in specific formats. More advanced EDRs may record additional information from the engine control module, antilock brakes, and other vehicle systems. Federal rules outline as many as 30 extra data elements that advanced EDRs must log. Vehicle manufacturers must publicly share information about how to download EDR data, and they have to include a statement in the owner's manual telling consumers that their vehicle has an EDR.

7 What are the potential uses of the data? EDRs can provide information about a crash that can't be obtained through more traditional investigation techniques. Police, crash investigators, automakers, insurance adjusters, and highway safety researchers can use this information to analyze what occurred during a crash. The data may help automakers improve occupant restraint systems and vehicle structures.3,4
EDR data may be useful in determining culpability. For example, EDR data from a car involved in an August 2002 crash in Florida showed the vehicle was traveling at 114 mph seconds before it struck another vehicle, killing two passengers. The EDR data were used to convict the driver of manslaughter.5

9 Who owns the data and who has access? EDRs and the data they store belong to vehicle owners. Police, insurers, researchers, automakers, and others may gain access to the data with owner consent. Without consent, access may be obtained through a court order. For example, in a Florida criminal case involving a vehicular manslaughter charge, the police obtained a warrant to access the EDR data.5
For crashes that don't involve litigation, especially when police or insurers are interested in assessing fault, insurers may be able to access the EDRs in their policyholders' vehicles based on provisions in the insurance contract requiring policyholders to cooperate with the insurer. However, some states prohibit insurance contracts from requiring policyholders to consent to access.8,9

Sorry, that tells me that I don't have absolute control of the data. When somebody can access the data, it makes me nervous. It starts us out on a slippery slope. My wife can take the 5th. The EDR cannot. What it is like to me is this. I have to pay for a cop to sit beside me. No thanx.

True - they can subpoena the data, if it exists. And I suppose that could start down the path of "obstruction of justice" if you somehow deleted the data. If information is there, someone else will somehow try to claim ownership of it.

I assume the mandate is intended to give NHTSA some ability to investigate and control electronic systems. If manufacturers systems are all proprietary, then it could be the fox guarding the henhouse when it comes to investigating problems.

Or maybe it's a method to provide the black helicopter-hacker crowd the ability to take over your car remotely - like the robots did to Will Smith.

Or to let state agencies start taxing and tolling by miles driven...or self-reporting speeding tickets...auto-speed control in school zones...yeah...

spdrun 09-30-2011 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak (Post 2800949)
Or to let state agencies start taxing and tolling by miles driven...or self-reporting speeding tickets...auto-speed control in school zones...yeah...

Nah, EDRs are wired devices and only record the last 30-sec of data before an impact. Not particularly bothersome compared to a system (OnStar) that can transmit your location at will, wirelessly.

aklim 09-30-2011 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak (Post 2800949)
I assume the mandate is intended to give NHTSA some ability to investigate and control electronic systems. If manufacturers systems are all proprietary, then it could be the fox guarding the henhouse when it comes to investigating problems.

Or to let state agencies start taxing and tolling by miles driven...or self-reporting speeding tickets...auto-speed control in school zones...yeah...

IF it were to give the manufacturers data to better the car, that is one thing. But if it can bite you back in the ass, you should be informed and have a choice if you want the data logged or not.

elchivito 10-01-2011 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun (Post 2800876)
Don't know, but it squicks me in a visceral way. If you have nothing to hide, would you like someone gazing in your window 24/7?

I didn't say I believed it. It's one of the most preposterous positions I've ever heard anyone take.

catmandoo62 10-01-2011 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun (Post 2800914)
Pretty close in my opinion. Having something like OnStar in my car would make me want to remove it and smash the electronics with a large sledgehammer until they're a fine sand of silicon.

Glad as hell I drive a 28-year old car that doesn't have any of that spy crap built in.

exactly.i have onstar in 2 vehicles and want to disable both of em.

aklim 10-01-2011 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catmandoo62 (Post 2801087)
exactly.i have onstar in 2 vehicles and want to disable both of em.

I don't think it is practical if it is woven into the technology which is why I wondered about a kill switch to self destruct.

spdrun 10-01-2011 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim (Post 2801091)
I don't think it is practical if it is woven into the technology which is why I wondered about a kill switch to self destruct.

No car currently built would fail to operate in an area without cell service. Leave the OnCrap connected. Castrate it by removing it's ability to communicate (I.e. short its antenna lead to ground). But reading a thread on a vette forum that was linked here, it's a separate box at least in current Vettes. And fully removable assuming some precautions are taken.

spdrun 10-01-2011 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito (Post 2801076)
I didn't say I believed it. It's one of the most preposterous positions I've ever heard anyone take.

regardless, that's MY position and am entitled to my opinion, no? Hate being spied on without my consent, whether it's by a peeper or a big corepiration. If anything, the corepiration is less honest in its intentions.

aklim 10-01-2011 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun (Post 2801185)
No car currently built would fail to operate in an area without cell service. Leave the OnCrap connected. Castrate it by removing it's ability to communicate (I.e. short its antenna lead to ground). But reading a thread on a vette forum that was linked here, it's a separate box at least in current Vettes. And fully removable assuming some precautions are taken.

But if removing it disables something else, it isn't a good idea. Why should I have to lose airbags just so you can't log my data and summon it up with a tool?

spdrun 10-01-2011 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim (Post 2801238)
But if removing it disables something else, it isn't a good idea. Why should I have to lose airbags just so you can't log my data and summon it up with a tool?

No automaker would make airbags (or any vital functions) contingent on the car seeing a cell connection. Liability disaster, anyone?

aklim 10-01-2011 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun (Post 2801245)
No automaker would make airbags (or any vital functions) contingent on the car seeing a cell connection. Liability disaster, anyone?

I'm more concerned with the datalogging. See my post on EDR and Item 7

MTUpower 10-02-2011 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger (Post 2800718)
http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com...ds/foilhat.jpg Step 1, place tin foil hat on head.

http://homepages.mty.itesm.mx/al5967...es/hippies.JPG

Step #2, put on big peace sign around neck and start your day with asking others if the kool-aid tasted good 'cause the tabs are starting to kick in.


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