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  #1  
Old 11-07-2011, 11:17 AM
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Tax Tidbit

The top 1% of US taxpayers paid an average tax rate of 24% in 2009 vs. 34% in 1980.
The bottom 50% of US taxpayers paid an average tax rate of 2% in 2009 vs 6% in 1980.

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  #2  
Old 11-07-2011, 12:19 PM
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National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:20 PM
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Add to the above facts that 49% of US households didn't pay Federal taxes at all.
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  #4  
Old 11-07-2011, 12:24 PM
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another way of looking at it, which historically applies to why banks get robbed . . . because that's where the money is.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:29 PM
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The issue of taxes is so convoluted that nobody is sure of what they paid in taxes total so what is the point of any of these numbers? Unless you can trace each and every product from the time it hits the shores till it gets to you (assuming it is imported) or the cost of the item for production, it is worthless. We have so many taxes here and there that it gets added on in ways nobody can calculate. All you can tell me is "I paid $X to the IRS". As such, if I wanted to get elected or re-elected, I lower that tax amount (visible taxes) and raise the other amounts (invisible taxes) and get back the same number and make you happy.

Assume a simple scenario at the supermarket. You must buy eggs, milk, meat and cereal. I lower the egg prices by $1 but raise the milk, meat and cereal by $0.50 each. I get more out of it but I have that huge sign that says $1 off eggs and make you happy.
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:28 PM
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State, income and sales taxes should be part of the calculus when making a "the ____ of the population pays ___ of the taxes" statement.
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JMela View Post
State, income and sales taxes should be part of the calculus when making a "the ____ of the population pays ___ of the taxes" statement.
But if I paid the some other tax, I pass it down to you when you buy my product. So how does that figure into the equation?
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:44 PM
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Of course the numbers are correct. There should be zero wiggle room for adjusted gross income. In fact, the definition of AGI is the income after all wiggle room and "loopholes" have been exhausted.

Adjusted gross income doesn't tell you anything. Last year our household adjusted gross income was about half our total income.
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
Add to the above facts that 49% of US households didn't pay Federal taxes at all.
^ a lie

truth:

O'Reilly's tax falsehoods: 50 percent "don't pay any federal income tax," estate tax "unconstitutional" | Media Matters for America
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Old 11-08-2011, 06:14 PM
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Ah, yes...a leftist view from a leftist site.
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  #11  
Old 11-08-2011, 06:44 PM
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Oh, just 40% don't pay, that's not that bad.
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  #12  
Old 11-09-2011, 08:52 AM
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But if I paid the some other tax, I pass it down to you when you buy my product. So how does that figure into the equation?
I don't see why this is such a issue for you. Is there a solution to your perceived problem?
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:06 AM
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I don't see why this is such a issue for you.

Is there a solution to your perceived problem?
Simply put, it makes any discussion of taxes moot. As I have said before, because of these tricks, I can lower your visible tax rates to make you happy by instructing the IRS to take say 5% off and yet load you up in a different spot where you cannot see. In short, accounting is impossible. You can tell me how much you paid in federal taxes and state taxes and say that back in the 40s, we paid more. You might even be able to tell me how much you paid in city taxes, stadium taxes, dog catcher taxes to some extent but you can never say how much you paid in total taxes. That allows me to "steal from Peter to pay Paul". So I give you a 5% break for voting me in at the IRS and state taxes. However, I load you back up in other areas. Perhaps more even but yet it makes you happy.

Best solution I can think of is to have no taxes whatsoever and tax at POS. IF you want to raise taxes you are going to have to raise it at POS level and then you have to justify to your citizens why you need that money. Right now, you can twist it around so badly that nobody will ever know.

IF you really want to think about it, ask yourself this, how much did YOU pay in taxes total. Not just the IRS but all the indirect taxes. If you don't know, you can't make a comparison between years.
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2011, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Solid Snake View Post
Oh, just 40% don't pay, that's not that bad.
Person 1 makes $10k and pays no taxes on that $10k.

Person 2 makes $500k and of that, $500k, pays no taxes on $100k.

Is this equitable? IMO it is not, as person 2 just skipped out on paying taxes on $100k while person 2 skipped out on only $10k.

Person 1 puts $10k in the bank and gets a 10% rate of return.

Person 2 puts $100k in the bank and gets the same 10% rate of return.

Is this equitable? From a purely mathematical POV it is, at least it is to me.
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
Add to the above facts that 49% of US households didn't pay Federal taxes at all.

Thanks for injecting some useful facts.

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