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  #1  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:01 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Ali tribute

Since it is a shame to detract in any way from Smokin Joes RIP thead I just thought I would provide a place for folks to defend his honor from the attacks launched his way on the RIP thread.

My assessment: He was a great talented athlete. He had wonderful legs and astonishing speed when he began fighting. He did though have rather fragile hands and broke them in several of his fights. In the first Norton fight Kenny broke his jaw in the third or so round so Ali fought the rest of the fight with a broken jaw.

After his forced exile for being an early Viet Nam protester and for having the audacity to become a muslim and change his name he was never the same. The exile took his most prime years and when he came back he was slower and heavier and never reached the prime conditioning again of his early years.

He was very excellent at finding a way to slip a lot of the punches and find ways to keep other boxers at bay while he survived the round.

He took way too many punches over his later career and no doubt it caused his present condition.

Guts? He had them in spades.

He was a huge leader in the civil rights movement and was perhaps the most socially influential athlete who ever lived.

I have read a lot about him but not much about fixing fights. If the fights were fixed it does not mean he was involved. He has the reputation from folks who know boxing as a champion who fought everyone out there and often twice, not dodging good opponents as many champions had done over the years.

His biggest mistake was being too generous with his money and perhaps because of that staying around too long after he lost his edge.

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Old 11-10-2011, 07:33 AM
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Since this is not an RIP thread I will weigh in. When his RIP thread comes about, I will abstain out of respect for the dead.

I will never deny that he had talent, skill and determination. BUT, he was a draft dodger that was coddled and favored by the news media and his industry. He got wins that he did NOT deserve, notably the Norton fight of May '75. He was a motor mouth of maximum proportions. I wouldn't give fifteen cents for the guy.

That said, I hate seeing him in the shape he's been in the last several years. I would wish that on no one.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:00 AM
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When Ali was asked why he refused to be drafted, and replied..'Them Vietnamese aint done nothin to me', I felt that he made a helluva statement.
Larry, I understand your perspective as someone who served the country, and thusly put your life on the line for what you believed in.

However, I dont know that it would be fair to hate/harbor ill-will/dislike/verbally berate someone who made the decision not to serve.

Just as I dont know that it would be fair to hate/harbor ill-will/dislike/verbally berate someone who made the same decision that you made.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by chilcutt View Post
When Ali was asked why he refused to be drafted, and replied..'Them Vietnamese aint done nothin to me', I felt that he made a helluva statement.
Larry, I understand your perspective as someone who served the country, and thusly put your life on the line for what you believed in.

However, I dont know that it would be fair to hate/harbor ill-will/dislike/verbally berate someone who made the decision not to serve.

Just as I dont know that it would be fair to hate/harbor ill-will/dislike/verbally berate someone who made the same decision that you made.

I have no trouble at all with ANYONE who chose to not answer the call. The problem that I DO have with it is when they choose to do so and then STAY in the country that they refused to serve.

For all the guys that chose to go to Canada? Fine! The problem I have is with the ones who didn't STAY there.

These kind of people want their cake and eat it too. If you're gonna' dance you gotta' pay the fiddler. Answer the call, or get the hell out and don't continue to enjoy the freedoms that you refused to protect.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post
...If you're gonna' dance you gotta' pay the fiddler...
I think that Ali did that, although I can see your point.

He had unbelievable hand speed. In the video of his old fights, it seems as if his opponent's head would snap back before you even knew that Ali was throwing a punch. Ali could also move his own head back just enough to make his opponent miss. Must have been frustrating to fight him, especially with him running his mouth.

And the rope-a-dope thing against Foreman was pure genius and bravery. The last round of that fight is the best thing I have ever seen in a boxing ring.

Ali is definitely on the short list of the greatest American athletes. (Babe Ruth being the greatest, IMHO.)
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
I think that Ali did that, although I can see your point.

He had unbelievable hand speed. In the video of his old fights, it seems as if his opponent's head would snap back before you even knew that Ali was throwing a punch. Ali could also move his own head back just enough to make his opponent miss. Must have been frustrating to fight him, especially with him running his mouth.

And the rope-a-dope thing against Foreman was pure genius and bravery. The last round of that fight is the best thing I have ever seen in a boxing ring.

Ali is definitely on the short list of the greatest American athletes. (Babe Ruth being the greatest, IMHO.)

No, he definitely did NOT pay the fiddler. By paying the fiddler, I meant serving when he was called. He chose to live under the freedom for which he refused to serve to protect when he was called to do so.

Yeah, what was it he said? "Move like a Rabbit and sting like a Bee?"

Yep, athletically he is DEFINITELY on the short list. On the list of athletes sorted by character level, he's in the bottom quadrant however.
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Old 11-10-2011, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post
No, he definitely did NOT pay the fiddler. By paying the fiddler, I meant serving when he was called. He chose to live under the freedom for which he refused to serve to protect when he was called to do so.

Yeah, what was it he said? "Move like a Rabbit and sting like a Bee?"

Yep, athletically he is DEFINITELY on the short list. On the list of athletes sorted by character level, he's in the bottom quadrant however.
"Move like a butterfly, sting like a bee."

That boy was something else.
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2011, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
"Move like a butterfly, sting like a bee."

That boy was something else.

Thanks. I couldn't remember it, but I remember very well watching him when he said it.

He was indeed a gifted and talented athlete.
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:27 PM
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It was Float like a butterfly sting like a bee.
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2011, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
It was Float like a butterfly sting like a bee.

Yeah, that's it!
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:33 PM
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Absolutely right. "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee." Classic Ali.
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2011, 01:35 PM
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Yeah, if he hadn't run his mouth all the time with stuff like that, he would probably be thought of in a positive light by many more people.
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Old 11-10-2011, 01:51 PM
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Cassius Clay was a great boxer.....
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Old 11-10-2011, 02:13 PM
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Yep, for years I refused to call him anything but Cassius Clay, but then time wore it out of my vocabulary.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post
Yeah, if he hadn't run his mouth all the time with stuff like that, he would probably be thought of in a positive light by many more people.
Much of his fame/ the reason people are still talking about him is due to his patter.

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