What should NCAA do to Penn State? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Honus · #16 11-11-2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

But still a "double jeopardy" in essence but called a different name to make ourselves feel better. Kinda like with Rodney King. Can't get them this way, get them the other way or like with OJ who was freed in one court but hounded in another? IOW, we violate the SPIRIT of the law but follow the LETTER of the law? Or perhaps you prefer the colloquial way of saying it? "We play until I win"?

Your concept of double jeopardy bears no resemblance to the way our justice system works.

Honus · #17 11-11-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

My point is that they are being handled by the police now. Why do we need to further kick them down? Just as with Koon, he was tried and set free in on one charge in state court and because of the riots, was charged in FEDERAL court. In theory, his rights were not violated but in reality, we both know it is the same issue over again...

What do you mean "in theory"? His rights weren't violated in any respect, whatsoever.

aklim · #18 11-11-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

I agree with that, except for the "almost" part. You also left out the part where the victims punish them in civil court. And once the authorities in Pennsylvania and Texas get done with them, I hope the feds can come up with some charges of their own.

BTW, none of that would constitute double jeopardy.

Not legally but as I said, there is a difference between the LETTER of the law vs the SPIRIT of the law. How many times do we need to punish them for the issue to satisfy your vengeance?

aklim · #19 11-11-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

Your concept of double jeopardy bears no resemblance to the way our justice system works.

Fine. Explain to me WHY, not WHAT, WHY we have the double jeopardy laws.

aklim · #20 11-11-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

What do you mean "in theory"? His rights weren't violated in any respect, whatsoever.

Explain to me how that wasn't a case of "We play until I win".

Honus · #21 11-11-2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Not legally but as I said, there is a difference between the LETTER of the law vs the SPIRIT of the law. How many times do we need to punish them for the issue to satisfy your vengeance?

That's a good question, which is why it is good not to rush these sorts of things. Vengeance is not all that important, IMHO. I am more interested in compensation and deterrence.

Honus · #22 11-11-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Fine. Explain to me WHY, not WHAT, WHY we have the double jeopardy laws.

I don't think I could do that subject justice without spending a few days reading and composing my thoughts. I don't mean to be glib, but plenty has been written on that subject by people who know a lot more than I.

Honus · #23 11-11-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Explain to me how that wasn't a case of "We play until I win".

If he had been acquitted in the federal case, it would have been over. That's why it wasn't play until I win.

aklim · #24 11-11-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

That's a good question, which is why it is good not to rush these sorts of things. Vengeance is not all that important, IMHO. I am more interested in compensation and deterrence.

I think that the legal issues and the civil actions that proceed will be compensation and deterrence enough without any more action. OTOH, if you say this is their 10th offense, I can see that sterner measures have to be taken. Right now several people have been fired and I'm sure there will be more to come with some even having their careers stunted. And I haven't mentioned the civil penalties that will no doubt come forth once this is cleared.

BobK · #25 11-11-2011, 01:21 PM

So if your congresman is caught on tape taking a bribe, charged, tried and convicted in federal court and for some reason given a suspended sentance, it would be ok for him to continue to serve in the club called US Congress?

Honus · #26 11-11-2011, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I think that the legal issues and the civil actions that proceed will be compensation and deterrence enough without any more action. OTOH, if you say this is their 10th offense, I can see that sterner measures have to be taken. Right now several people have been fired and I'm sure there will be more to come with some even having their careers stunted. And I haven't mentioned the civil penalties that will no doubt come forth once this is cleared.

That seems reasonable.

Honus · #27 11-11-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobK

So if your congresman is caught on tape taking a bribe, charged, tried and convicted in federal court and for some reason given a suspended sentance, it would be ok for him to continue to serve in the club called US Congress?

I don't know whether that question was directed at me, but I think it would be legal for him to continue in office. Not necessarily, "ok", but probably legal. As I recall, there is probably some sort of impeachment process that could be exercised, but I would hesitate to invoke any remedy that sets aside a valid election.

aklim · #28 11-11-2011, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

I don't think I could do that subject justice without spending a few days reading and composing my thoughts. I don't mean to be glib, but plenty has been written on that subject by people who know a lot more than I.

I think the way I see it is that the state has HUGE resources. As such, I can nail you again and again and again and yet again. You probably don't have the same resources or it would financially drain you even if you did. I believe it is to limit a govt from going on a "witch hunt" and abuse it's power by harassing you till you drop.

aklim · #29 11-11-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

If he had been acquitted in the federal case, it would have been over. That's why it wasn't play until I win.

Somehow I doubt that it would have been over even if he was acquitted in federal court. Like I said, it does seem to toe the line when it comes to the letter of the law but IMO, it does seem to violate the spirit of the law.

MTI · #30 11-11-2011, 01:29 PM

A criminal prosecution's goal is punishment for violation of criminal law/statute. No element of a criminal prosecution is compensatory to the victim, unless there is some statute which so provides, since incarceration and fines typically benefit the government.

Civil litigation is compensatory to the injured party, except when exemplary damages are warranted. Exemplary damages, also called punitive damages, go beyond mere compensation. The requisite standars of proof are lower and a unanimous verdict is not required.

Administrative remedies, such as the ones issued by the NCAA, are generally outside of the legal system. Contractural violations are handled in this forum, under rules promulgated by the NCAA.