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  #31  
Old 11-11-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BobK View Post
So if your congresman is caught on tape taking a bribe, charged, tried and convicted in federal court and for some reason given a suspended sentance, it would be ok for him to continue to serve in the club called US Congress?
You speak as if this would be a hypothetical situation.

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  #32  
Old 11-11-2011, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
I think the way I see it is that the state has HUGE resources. As such, I can nail you again and again and again and yet again. You probably don't have the same resources or it would financially drain you even if you did. I believe it is to limit a govt from going on a "witch hunt" and abuse it's power by harassing you till you drop.
I agree with that, too.
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  #33  
Old 11-11-2011, 01:40 PM
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I think it has a whole lot to do with the athletic department. For one thing, didn't Sandusky continue to use Penn State facilities for his boys' camps after Paterno knew about the rape? And why the hell is the graduate assistant who witnessed the rape still on their staff? I'm not saying that I know all the facts, but what has been made public seems sufficient for the NCAA to at least investigate. Their investigation should wait until the criminal process gets further along, but I would hope that they would be empowered to address this sort of thing. It goes to the core of what the NCAA claims is its mission.
Another troubling aspect in this is that Sandusky had been mentioned as an heir apparent to Paterno. Instead, he retired in '99 at approx. age 56. I can only imaging that other colleges would have inquired about hiring him, what with the high profile and winning record at Penn.

Were there conversations between officials at Penn and other institutions? What might have been said along the lines of, "no, you don't want to go with Sandusky, he has problems with . . . "

It's pure speculation and I might not have thought of it myself - I heard it mentioned on ESPN last night. Given the hype that is placed on winning coaches, it's hard to imagine that people wouldn't have pressed for answers as to why he didn't want to accept several $million to coach at their alma mater at age 56, which is in the prime years for a football coach.
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  #34  
Old 11-11-2011, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BobK View Post
So if your congresman is caught on tape taking a bribe, charged, tried and convicted in federal court and for some reason given a suspended sentance, it would be ok for him to continue to serve in the club called US Congress?
The convicted part worries me but not if he has been tried and found not guilty.
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  #35  
Old 11-11-2011, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
Were there conversations between officials at Penn and other institutions? What might have been said along the lines of, "no, you don't want to go with Sandusky, he has problems with . . .
Unless we are good friends, why would I care? In fact, we made a practice of sending our undesirable customers to our competitors in hopes that it would weigh them down. I know I did and I wasn't alone. I had a good relationship with Wells Fargo and if a customer had a banking gripe AND was a good customer, I'd send them there. OTOH, if we had a bad relationship, I'd send them to the banks that were on my **** list.

Surely you have heard of departments or companies that give a good reference to a problem child so he goes elsewhere?
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  #36  
Old 11-11-2011, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Unless we are good friends, why would I care? In fact, we made a practice of sending our undesirable customers to our competitors in hopes that it would weigh them down. I know I did and I wasn't alone. I had a good relationship with Wells Fargo and if a customer had a banking gripe AND was a good customer, I'd send them there. OTOH, if we had a bad relationship, I'd send them to the banks that were on my **** list.

Surely you have heard of departments or companies that give a good reference to a problem child so he goes elsewhere?

Yes, there are often multiple advantages to "firing" customers.
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  #37  
Old 11-11-2011, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post
Okay since it hasn't been quoted yet I will change it to suit you.

Yes, I DO believe that a gay molestation is more damaging than a heterosexual one. That said, NO molestation of a child in any way or form is at all acceptable!

Additionally, I heard about a boy that this sicky took to San Antonio with him. WHAT parent with two brain cells to rub together would allow such a thing? I would have to know someone REALLY well, before I would allow them to travel with my child. I would have to be COMPLETELY convinced that they would not do anything inappropriate and would supervise them properly.

Such a parent must be brain dead!
I am just pointing out you needlessly inject homosexuality into something that is unassociated in reality. I agree on your second point - no parent should have let that happen!
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  #38  
Old 11-11-2011, 02:05 PM
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Yes, there are often multiple advantages to "firing" customers.
Only the bad ones, not the good ones.
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  #39  
Old 11-11-2011, 02:10 PM
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Only the bad ones, not the good ones.
Of course!

Most of my career was spent in a software industry where we developed and supplied software tools. It took savvy people to use these products. The ones that weren't very sharp sometimes became enormous support loads and typically these were the ones that would say lots of bad things about the products.

The reason for the bad press was typically to hide their own incompetence. It is easy to see the advantage of making them want to go to the competition.
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  #40  
Old 11-11-2011, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Unless we are good friends, why would I care? In fact, we made a practice of sending our undesirable customers to our competitors in hopes that it would weigh them down. I know I did and I wasn't alone. I had a good relationship with Wells Fargo and if a customer had a banking gripe AND was a good customer, I'd send them there. OTOH, if we had a bad relationship, I'd send them to the banks that were on my **** list.

Surely you have heard of departments or companies that give a good reference to a problem child so he goes elsewhere?
That would be the 'cynic for life' position. So you think it would be wise business practice to give the stamp of approval, an excellent reference for a coach that was likely to blow up in a competitors face sooner or later? Yeah, that would be a great advertisement for the high priced factory of higher ed. and athletic deptartments: "We're committed to us winning and them losing at any and all cost."

If the sort of scenario that I suggested did take place, it would broaden the scope of football honchos being more concerned about hush-hushing an embarrassing story than in protecting and/or rescuing current and future victims of this guy, who clearly had wormed his way into a predator's dream farm system of vulnerable boys. He continued to run football summer camps and the like for years after he left Penn.
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  #41  
Old 11-11-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post
Okay since it hasn't been quoted yet I will change it to suit you.

Yes, I DO believe that a gay molestation is more damaging than a heterosexual one. That said, NO molestation of a child in any way or form is at all acceptable!

Additionally, I heard about a boy that this sicky took to San Antonio with him. WHAT parent with two brain cells to rub together would allow such a thing? I would have to know someone REALLY well, before I would allow them to travel with my child. I would have to be COMPLETELY convinced that they would not do anything inappropriate and would supervise them properly.

Such a parent must be brain dead!

Easier said than done, its easy to blame the parents and call them brain dead, but the above scenario is fairly unrealistic.

You send a kid to camp or school, and there is a 100% chance that occasionally that child will be in the power of an adult that you have not personally met, or vetted beforehand. Count ever single away game bus ride for every single type of sport. There is no escaping this fact unless you home school your kid, which is not ideal IMO.
There is a degree of trust that the parent must have with the school, where the parent assumes that the school environment and school personnel will be safe and protective of the child as a whole. Generally, this is true, except for horrible situations like the one that took place here.

Same degree of trust with a camp. Because of the cover up of the 2002 rape, its not out of line to figure that parents would assume they could trust a notable retired sports figure from Penn State like Sandusky.

Now we are quick to call them brain dead and judge them, but assuming the parent was unaware of the rape, id say that was a fairly easy trap to fall into. Parents probably figured, "oh, hes travelling with well known retired coach Sandusky, he should be perfectly safe"
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  #42  
Old 11-11-2011, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
That would be the 'cynic for life' position. So you think it would be wise business practice to give the stamp of approval, an excellent reference for a coach that was likely to blow up in a competitors face sooner or later? Yeah, that would be a great advertisement for the high priced factory of higher ed. and athletic deptartments: "We're committed to us winning and them losing at any and all cost."

If the sort of scenario that I suggested did take place, it would broaden the scope of football honchos being more concerned about hush-hushing an embarrassing story than in protecting and/or rescuing current and future victims of this guy, who clearly had wormed his way into a predator's dream farm system of vulnerable boys. He continued to run football summer camps and the like for years after he left Penn.
You can call it cynical all day long but the fact is I have seen it happen and know people who have seen it happen and even know people who have made it happen. Yes, people like you want the nice sounding slogans so they say it for you. Few people will tell you what they are thinking besides the nice slogans. Look at the RC church, for example. Glowing references to a child molester so he can go somewhere else and bury the problem. Tell me it isn't true. Perhaps you also know some reason why Vick was hired?

It might be as you say but as I said, if they are friends, they might say "Off the record since we are friends, I wouldn't hire him but you do what you want.". Officially, they are so tight lipped these days about job references, it is hard for a supervisor, if not against company policies to give references.
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  #43  
Old 11-11-2011, 04:10 PM
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It's hard to imagine why Sandusky wouldn't coach somewhere for a 7 figure salary unless he'd be sort of blacklisted on the insiders circle poster board. Makes it more likely that higher ups knew very well what was going on.
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  #44  
Old 11-11-2011, 04:17 PM
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It's hard to imagine why Sandusky wouldn't coach somewhere for a 7 figure salary unless he'd be sort of blacklisted on the insiders circle poster board. Makes it more likely that higher ups knew very well what was going on.
Comfort zone perhaps? Don't predators usually like to hunt in their comfort zone?

IIRC, he was heir apparent to Jopa. That might figure into it too.

I'm sure some of the PSU higher ups knew but why would they want to expose it? If I covered it up, why would I go tell the next guy I saw at the bus stop about it? Why would I risk tell anyone else about it?
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  #45  
Old 07-18-2012, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tbomachines View Post
I am just pointing out you needlessly inject homosexuality into something that is unassociated in reality. I agree on your second point - no parent should have let that happen!
The children were, I believe, primarily orphans. this is why he chose them, befriended them and then ...... committed unmentionable crimes with them.

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