Electromotive owned by Cat leaves Canada. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

barry123400 · #1 02-03-2012, 04:42 PM

Electromotive division the ex GM rail engine builder owned by Cat is now is going back to the states. They want workers to work for very little and could not get it in Canada. I mean less than half of what they currently earn here with benifits seriously slashed as well.

Cat made five billion profit last year. Two point seven billion the year before. Unless american workers will compete against the chinese on a labour cost basis I would expect this facility to transit to china as some of their heavy equipment division already has before too much longer. I noticed even back then the government did not read the riot act. Basically if a corporation is highly profitable and compedative pressures are not really damaging them. There should be some loyalty to the countries that enabled them to become what they are.

Either one of the north american governments steps in pretty soon or it will be too late for many things. Enough damage has already been done. This type of thing is going to have a serious fall out. They are moving to Indiana where the right to work bill has just been passed. Maybe they just need 10 billion a year profit to feel good. Maximation of profit at the originating countries expense still does not seem proper. As Cat quotes though north americans just do not understand globalization. I am afraid we might really all too well. It looks like greed is a major component of it.

I think the jobs will be welcome in Indiana but the wages very poor. I hope this is not the leading edge of a further new wave. There is not much doubt in my mind their ultimate destination is the orient. Unfortunatly the way the wind is still blowing there are probably a lot of other corporations considering it as it has proven to not really negativly affect their operations long term. Plus the north american governments have not enacted sane preventative policies. .

panZZer · #2 02-03-2012, 06:16 PM

Cat is owned by a japanese co isn't it?

Dave Donaldson · #3 02-03-2012, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry123400

Electromotive division the ex GM rail engine builder owned by Cat is now is going back to the states. They want workers to work for very little and could not get it in Canada. I mean less than half of what they currently earn here with benifits seriously slashed as well.

Cat made five billion profit last year. Two point seven billion the year before. Unless american workers will compete against the chinese on a labour cost basis I would expect this facility to transit to china as some of their heavy equipment division already has before too much longer. I noticed even back then the government did not read the riot act. Basically if a corporation is highly profitable and compedative pressures are not really damaging them. There should be some loyalty to the countries that enabled them to become what they are.

Either one of the north american governments steps in pretty soon or it will be too late for many things. Enough damage has already been done. This type of thing is going to have a serious fall out. They are moving to Indiana where the right to work bill has just been passed. Maybe they just need 10 billion a year profit to feel good. Maximation of profit at the originating countries expense still does not seem proper. As Cat quotes though north americans just do not understand globalization. I am afraid we might really all too well. It looks like greed is a major component of it.

I think the jobs will be welcome in Indiana but the wages very poor. I hope this is not the leading edge of a further new wave. There is not much doubt in my mind their ultimate destination is the orient. Unfortunatly the way the wind is still blowing there are probably a lot of other corporations considering it as it has proven to not really negativly affect their operations long term. Plus the north american governments have not enacted sane preventative policies. .

Yup Jan 4 th take a 50 % wage cut pension cut and benefit cut or else.
4 weeks later gone,, the Cat has left the building,,, this plant is about 50 miles west form my home and has got all the locals talking,, bottom line is that rumor has it most work will go to S America labour rules , regulation on safety and environment are more becoming to the company work ethic. Will the company pay a 25 year worker the pension that he was counting on and pai into all these years. It's a messy fugly mess.

amosfella · #4 02-03-2012, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Donaldson

Yup Jan 4 th take a 50 % wage cut pension cut and benefit cut or else.
4 weeks later gone,, the Cat has left the building,,, this plant is about 50 miles west form my home and has got all the locals talking,, bottom line is that rumor has it most work will go to S America labour rules , regulation on safety and environment are more becoming to the company work ethic. Will the company pay a 25 year worker the pension that he was counting on and pai into all these years. It's a messy fugly mess.

That's the problem with the pension negotiations that happened in north america... It takes away the competitive edge, and gives it to the oriental societies where saving is a virtue, rather than a vice....

Dudesky · #5 02-03-2012, 08:13 PM

Doesn't fit here, made in China next.

layback40 · #6 02-03-2012, 08:18 PM

Will be interesting to see how the build quality holds up.
Chinese steel in drive train components will soon reduce reliability.
I guess they think that diesel/electric doesnt have these problems.

kerry · #7 02-03-2012, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amosfella

That's the problem with the pension negotiations that happened in north america... It takes away the competitive edge, and gives it to the oriental societies where saving is a virtue, rather than a vice....

I'll be management has good pensions.

Dave Donaldson · #8 02-03-2012, 08:40 PM

E. Warran

Pooka · #9 02-03-2012, 10:03 PM

It took a long time to get here and it will take a long time to get out of it. But the market will correct any problems.

Labor costs? That depends on the area. If the type of worker you need is in short supply you will have to pay more for them because everyone else is. Like Silicon Valley. If Cat is paying wages that are good now will they be good tomorrow? Is a stable work force even needed to build a locomotive?

Raw materials? Can you get what you need where you are? Cumming's Engine tried to build diesels in India during the 60's. They lost big time because they could not even find piston rings that would last. They finally moved everything back to the US before they lost more market share.

Quality? Who else makes locomotives? Well, Mercedes for one. If Electromotive cannot find a place where they can build what their customers want the customers will look elsewhere or elsewhere will come and build in the US.

I know a guy that owns a short-line railroad and all of his stuff looks brand new. That is because he thought it was better to fix-up old GM stuff than to buy new. He was just not that impressed with what is on the market today.

Time will tell.

compress ignite · #10 02-04-2012, 02:41 AM

(This from a Nation [The U.S.]that now pretends Passenger Rail was just a Dream.)

G.E and DB can't make enough D/E engines to supply NS,UP,CSX and BNSD ?

The PRC is where it's at for even Coal Fired RR.
Let some Predatory Substandard D/E manufacturer shift operations over there,
In five years(10 tops) the Commies will have sucked them DRY and tossed them
on the Ash Heap of History.

Industry in NA is already in the Coffin.

(AND as long as we allow "Purchase" of Elected Officials by the highest bidder
it's Full Steam Astern!)

rscurtis · #11 02-04-2012, 12:31 PM

The original EMD tried outsourcing when they built the 6000 HP "H" engine. It turned out to be a QC disaster. Instead, they're still using the 2-cycle engine that goes back to the 1930's.

It will be interesting to see if CAT and EMC have learned anything from that experience. Another factor is that both Cummins and MTU are working on locomotive engines which will be able to meet the upcoming emissions standards.

aklim · #12 02-04-2012, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry123400

Cat made five billion profit last year. Two point seven billion the year before.

Unless american workers will compete against the chinese on a labour cost basis I would expect this facility to transit to china as some of their heavy equipment division already has before too much longer.

I noticed even back then the government did not read the riot act. Basically if a corporation is highly profitable and compedative pressures are not really damaging them. There should be some loyalty to the countries that enabled them to become what they are.

So what? It doesn't mean that next year they will make any profit at all or might even suffer a loss. A company has got to keep making profit year after year and more each year than the last or it will die out. See GM for an example. They didn't keep up and now they are so bad off that nobody else will lend to them except the govt and that is when the company fires it's CEO and installs a govt approved one.

How? How will you compete against a guy who is willing to take $20 a day and consider that an excellent wage? Manufacturing is DEAD. We just won't admit it and with that, we will never try find something else we can do better. If we don't, that boat is sailing and we will be left on the dock. As it stands, we aren't anywhere near that harbor even.

Why? What you gave me, I paid for so what do we owe each other? I expect business to move to whatever and wherever that makes it more profit. I also know that I will buy from whomever will give me the best deal. Yes, I spent 5 years working here but should the deal be better elsewhere, I'm gone. Similarly, if cutting me means better profit, I assume you will cut me. We owe each other NOTHING. We are in business as long as the relationship yields max profit for both. When that changes, "Hasta La Vista, Baby".

t walgamuth · #13 02-04-2012, 03:57 PM

We have a big cat plant here in Lafayette. It is non union. The workers tend to be a bit proud of the fact that they are non union and like to sneer at the union workers saying something like "we get paid the same as union workers without the union".

Of course without the union plant in Illinois they would not make nearly what they make here.

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