http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/opinion/kristof-in-athens-austeritys-ugliness.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120308

It’s stunning here in Athens to see many traffic lights not working, to see beggars pawing through garbage for food, to see blackened ruins of shops burned in rioting. I was even greeted by a homeless man who spoke impeccable British-accented English.

That man, Michael A. Kambouroglou, 35, claims that he studied English literature at Cambridge University and worked for years in the tourism industry, most recently at a five-star hotel. He told me that he had enjoyed a good life, visiting the United States and traveling around the world, until the day nearly a year ago when the collapsing economy caught up with him, and he was laid off.

There’s no doubt that Greece had been living recklessly and needed structural reforms. While much of Europe was fundamentally healthy until the crisis hit — the caricature Americans hold of a socialist Europe in decline is a vast exaggeration — Greece truly was a mess. For example, if you’re a business owner, taxation often works like this: Instead of paying a tax bill of, say, $100,000, you pay $40,000 to the state, hand a $20,000 bribe to the tax collector, and keep $40,000.

Republicans are right to see in Greece some perils of an overgenerous government: The state sector was bloated, early retirements and pensions were sometimes absurd, and rigid labor markets undermined Greece’s competitiveness. But the problem was not a welfare state — Greece has much less of a safety net than northern Europe. Rather, it was corruption, inefficiency and a system in which laws are optional.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

We can only hope Greece is not a precursor of any kind.

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For some reason I can't help but feel that Greece is showing us where we (US) are going.

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Jim

Nonsense. Italy, Ireland, Portugal, Spain. Countries are not 'fundamentally healthy" when cancer is eating away at them from within.

- Peter.

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

As far as I remember, those countries functioned just fine within their own frame work.

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Not really. Have you lived in any of them? I have. The taxation situation is rampant. People avoid taxes by paying cash, people avoid traffic tickets by bribing cops on the spot for 20-30% of the traffic fine, etc etc.

Services in Portugal are declining as well, even though they are less corrupt (a personal opinion). I think the other thing is lack of creativity in their govt administration to do what used to be done by people.

Plus, it's also resistance to change.
" We've always done it this way, it's tradition" doesn't wash in the 21st century.

There's no sacred tradition about bureaucracy that takes forever to process a piece of paper.

Registering a car in Michigan is a PITA so I go there 30 minutes before they close, take a nap. Wait for the call.

In Naples, you drop it off, you can't wait. They are "backed up" so you drive illegally and bribe the driver or you sit at home and wait for the mailman.
"Tradition" -- horses**t.

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Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

Reminds me much af an encounter I recently had on the subject.
You are measuring with your scale. That's the problem.
It's your standards they don't comply with and are dysfunctional accordingly.

If you reverse your projection and see yourself functioning within their setup, you will be the dysfunctional element. It's already obvious and purely subjective.

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I disagree. I'm measuring with their scale, which they ignore at times, with no consequences.
Or they go around the standard which they created, not me.

Neither is my standard and I don't care what they do.

They create a standard, then ignore it because they can. No subjectivity there.

In a system like that, the more dysfunctional they are, the more the system will reach a level of non-performance or have a competing standard, like in Mexico, where the Zetas do a better job of running the schools than the Mexican state government.

Soon we'll see which system will govern various states, it's up to the parties who live there. Not me.

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Strelnik
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman!

1950 170SD
1951 Citroen 11BN
1953 Citroen 11BNF limo
1953 220a project
1959 180D
1960 190D
1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr
1983 240D daily driver
1983 380SL
1990 350SDL daily driver alt
3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5
3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6

The problem is, they are not with their own framework. They are stuck in the Eurozone, which means they are contaminating the entire zone.

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

Yes. Somebody didn't think thru the whole Euro issue. The Danes and the Brits are looking smarter. It's that Viking blood.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

oh, the free market will correct everything.

(ok, not really, the u.s.a. is next. )

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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

I think Peru is irreedeemably corrupt based on my experiences there.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Was you part of the government?

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That is the real problem for the euro, getting individual countries to act in the common interest and not their own individual interest.

For the USA the deficit choices are simpler.

Reduce spending
Increase revenue
Inflation (print money)