State funds shortfall solution? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Pooka · #31 04-23-2012, 05:35 PM

According to an article in today's Tulsa World the state has just set the levels for school funding. The amount is going to be the same as it was in 2004.

This is not expected to help the situation, but it is supposed to keep it from getting worse.

spdrun · #32 04-23-2012, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pooka

According to an article in today's Tulsa World the state has just set the levels for school funding. The amount is going to be the same as it was in 2004.

This is not expected to help the situation, but it is supposed to keep it from getting worse.

So Okies will be headed west again ... not for work, but to find a decent education for their kids?

Pooka · #33 04-23-2012, 05:53 PM

Those that can afford it are putting their kids in private schools. That works in Tulsa and OKC, but most of the state is rural and private schools do not exist.

Yak · #34 04-23-2012, 07:39 PM

They already know where to get the money, they just don't want to say it: energy, aka oil and gas taxes.

In The Know: Oklahoma tax receipts have plunged | OK Policy Blog

Quote:

State revenue streak ends, all eyes on energy industry

Oklahoma has enjoyed two years of revenue growth. The streak has been broken, the State Treasurer said today. The biggest drop: taxes from oil and gas. Total collections for March 2012 were only down about 0.3 percent from the same month last year, but the gross production tax fell by more than one-third, Miller said in his monthly report. This is the fourth consecutive month of declining tax revenues from oil and natural gas, Miller said. There is a delay between market activity and tax receipts. March’s numbers reflect market activity from January, and Miller expects “a period of shrinking natural gas tax collections.” The price of natural gas is hovering around a 10-year low. State officials have to estimate revenue to create budgets and plan expenses.

Natural gas prices are low, so an increase in tax on natural gas shouldn't hurt consumers if the total price stays below the pre-glut (their words, not mine) prices.

Oklahoma also has some of the lowest gasoline and diesel taxes, to go along with comparatively low prices.

Raise the taxes on gasoline, diesel and production of natural gas by a few pennies per unit with a 2-year moratorium on the duration of the tax increase. The tax must disappear unless re-passed by an active vote. Any surplus collected above the forecast budget shortfall (i.e. above $400 million) should go to infrastructure improvement; e.g. roads, bridges, etc, that produce improvements and jobs in the state.

An argument will be that energy or consumption taxes are regressive since they disproportionally affect low-income by consuming a larger portion of their total income.

If they can't do that politically, then a temporary income tax surcharge might be needed on high incomes.

Or combine these: $150m from an increased natural gas tax increase; $150m from gas and diesel and another $100m from income tax surcharge on earned income above some value relevant to Oklahomans (e.g. 4 times the median wage in OK).

Yak · #35 04-23-2012, 08:09 PM

And before saying taxing gas production is a bad idea, read up on how the taxes are structured in OK, and the impact on the current (and recent) budget issues:

http://okpolicy.org/files/GPT2011.pdf

http://okpolicy.org/blog/taxes/stand-back-we-dont-know-how-big-these-things-may-get/

Quote:

The exemptions, in most cases, are equal to 6/7ths of the gross production tax, which means that exempt production is taxed at 1 percent. Beginning July 1, 2011, deep wells below 15,000 feet will be taxed at 4 percent. Enhanced recovery pro-jects are fully exempt from the gross production tax.
However, these drilling exemptions may be limited in three ways:
 By price – most drilling exemptions are suspended when the average annual index price of oil or gas is above a floor of $5.00 per MCF of gas or $30.00 per barrel of oil. The only exemptions not subject to a price trigger are those for enhanced recovery projects, horizontally drilled wells, and deep wells below 15,000 feet spudded af-ter July 1, 2005. With passage of HB 2432 in 2010, the price floors will rise annually based on the Consumer Price Index.
 By duration – all oil and gas exemptions can be claimed only for a set length of time following a project’s initia-tion or completion. For most drilling, exemptions can be claimed for 28 months from the date of first sales. The exceptions are for:
 Horizontal wells—the exemption is for 48 months or until project payback. HB 2432 passed in 2010 removed the project payback limit for production after July 1, 2011.
 Deep wells - the exemption is for 48 months from the date of first sales for wells between 15,000 and 17,499 feet and 60 months for wells 17,500 feet and deeper; and
 Enhanced recovery projects—the exemption is for five years or termination of the secondary recovery project.
 By amount – For deep wells of 15,000 feet and greater, the total amount of exemptions claimed was capped at $25 million per fiscal year as of FY ‘09. In 2010, HB 2432 removed the cap and instead set the tax on all deep wells below 15,000 feet at 4 percent effective July 1, 2011. No other exemptions are capped as to their total amount.
Overall, the most generous exemption is for horizontally drilled wells, which can be claimed in an unlimited amount regard-less of the price of oil and gas and for a duration of 48 months.

Dudesky · #36 04-23-2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak

They already know where to get the money, they just don't want to say it: energy, aka oil and gas taxes.

In The Know: Oklahoma tax receipts have plunged | OK Policy Blog

Natural gas prices are low, so an increase in tax on natural gas shouldn't hurt consumers if the total price stays below the pre-glut (their words, not mine) prices.

Oklahoma also has some of the lowest gasoline and diesel taxes, to go along with comparatively low prices.

Raise the taxes on gasoline, diesel and production of natural gas by a few pennies per unit with a 2-year moratorium on the duration of the tax increase.

The tax must disappear unless re-passed by an active vote. Any surplus collected above the forecast budget shortfall (i.e. above $400 million) should go to infrastructure improvement; e.g. roads, bridges, etc, that produce improvements and jobs in the state.

An argument will be that energy or consumption taxes are regressive since they disproportionally affect low-income by consuming a larger portion of their total income.

If they can't do that politically, then a temporary income tax surcharge might be needed on high incomes.

Or combine these: $150m from an increased natural gas tax increase; $150m from gas and diesel and another $100m from income tax surcharge on earned income above some value relevant to Oklahomans (e.g. 4 times the median wage in OK).

And you can show where a moratorium was lifted ala tax money?
Never happened where I live.

Yak · #37 04-23-2012, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudesky

And you can show where a moratorium was lifted ala tax money?
Never happened where I live.

That's because you live in your own little world where logic, reason and most importantly, research don't exist.

When is a temporary tax increase really temporary?

Nice opinion, though. Maybe try again later when you've got some facts.

Hatterasguy · #38 04-23-2012, 09:21 PM

Lets see I'm getting a population of 3,791,508 for Oklahoma, and they are short what $400 million plus or minus a few bucks?

Well lets stop screwing around here and do some simple math $400,000,000/3,791,508= $105.49

Special assessment tax, each head has to pay $106 lets say for a nice round number, to balance the budget. Stop playing games and just do it. If you want to live in the fine state of Oklahoma in 2012 that's what its going to cost per head. If the people really get pissy about it than they will have to cut taxes a bit more next go around.

Government money is not voodoo money, its real, just divide and pay that's what it costs.

retmil46 · #39 04-24-2012, 01:55 PM

Basically, they've ended up overproducing natural gas, overestimated demand and drilled too many wells, and are now drastically scaling back plans they've had on the board for quite some time as far as new wells/facilities. It's gotten to the point they're running out of storage capacity at a rapid rate. This is from an article in the Charlotte Observer a couple weeks ago. This is on a national scale, not just OK.

This might actually present an opportunity, as far as creating jobs.

If there's too little demand and storage capacity for natural gas in it's "natural" form, why not convert it into another form that's more in demand and easier to store - such as "synthetic" liquid diesel/jet fuel/kerosene?

One of the Emirate states in the ME is actually building a large capacity GTL (gas to liquid) plant. They have an abundance of natural gas, and it's far easier and cheaper to store, and transport on a conventional tanker than on a CNG or LNG vessel, if it's been converted to liquid diesel fuel.

And this stuff is very clean burning and high cetane (somewhere around 75 cetane). Daimler actually constructed a test engine a few years back to run on this synthetic diesel - they were able to lower the compression on the engine to 14:1, and it ran so clean they were able to meet 2010 emissions levels without ANY type of emissions controls.

In addition, there was an article in Diesel World magazine from a couple years back. A small company in Nevada had developed an alternative process, low energy input and relatively low temperature, in which they combined a gallon of conventional diesel and a gallon equivalent of natural gas, and produced 1.5 gallons of high grade clean-burning diesel. The process was partly powered by the waste products from the process, which removed most of the pollution-causing ingredients from the conventional diesel. They were still in the early stages, and were confident they could upgrade the process to 1 + 1 = 2 gallons of fuel output.

This might present an opportunity, offer the natural gas companies a new outlet for the overabundance of product they've backed themselves into, and provide jobs in the state - discuss with them an arrangement to set up GTL conversion plants in the state to convert natural gas into readily useable diesel/jet fuel/gasoline. You might even be able to get the Fed's/EPA's blessing and funding if you can demonstrate that this sruff is cleaner than the conventional alternative.

Found a link to the Diesel World article -

http://www.clearrefining.com/DW-1004-FUEL%20final.pdf

And to the company website itself -

Advanced Refining Concepts, LLC is committed to providing clean, domestically produced energy and new U.S. based manufacturing jobs.

Might be a new industry for OK.

mgburg · #40 04-24-2012, 04:33 PM

Get out of providing services that are being provided by the private sectors...like county hospitals, county and state nursing homes, garbage collection (lots of private industries do that now...), county ambulance services (let the private groups handle that)...every item the county/state does now, look at the surrounding communities and and if someone can fund it, get out of the state/county business of funding something that someone else can do and save the money - don't tax so much and maybe...just maybe...someone can start a private concern and fill the void.

Otherwise...you have a self-deprecating system that only takes in more and more taxes and produces not one single tax dollar to assist in its running. The ultimate PONZI-scheme that collapses on its own weight...and there's no one to blame except the operator of the entity itself...Government without brains or forethought.

iwrock · #41 04-24-2012, 04:45 PM

Legalize MJ

BAVBMW · #42 04-24-2012, 04:47 PM

Micheal Jackson is illegal on OK? And how does that change now that he is dead?

MV

iwrock · #43 04-24-2012, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAVBMW

Micheal Jackson is illegal on OK? And how does that change now that he is dead?

MV

"Mary Jane" my friend.

I read an article stating that if CA could gain approximately $1.5 billion in tax revenue if MJ were legalized and taxed. Dont know how much other states would gain, but theres tax income waiting to be collected!

Every dollar counts!

BAVBMW · #44 04-24-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwrock

"Mary Jane" my friend.

I read an article stating that if CA could gain approximately $1.5 billion in tax revenue if MJ were legalized and taxed. Dont know how much other states would gain, but theres tax income waiting to be collected!

Every dollar counts!

Oh. Yeah. Well that's cool I guess. Not sure if those revenue estimates are really gonna pan out in the long run, but it's worth a shot. I mean, I dig Tom Petty too, I just didn't know he was restricted in OK, or CA, for that matter.

Man I remember when that song came out... And now they play it on the classic rock station...

MV

Botnst · #45 04-24-2012, 07:14 PM

And put a special surtax on Twinkies.