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  #106  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:19 AM
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In college I participated in research concerning the "liberation" of Dachau and the collected oral histories of members of the 442nd RCT. At first, I read in utter disbelief, refusing to accept the scope of inhumanity.

I now understand the lament of many survivors who choose not to share their memories with the phrase, "If I tell you, you will know what I know." as the warning of a curse.

  #107  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by LaRondo View Post
The reality, that America, once a pristine landscape inhabited by "Natives", has been turned into a Zionist Dynasty w/ indisputable imperial ambitions shouldn't worry us at all.
In fact, America is 'The Solution'.
sounds like you are quoting the Ameriican Nazi party....
  #108  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:28 AM
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President Obama signed an official resolution of apology in 2009. It got very little press. Interestingly, since Obama is often accused of apologizing to foreign countries, the resolution was initiated by a Republican.

Bill Text - 111th Congress (2009-2010) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
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  #109  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:29 AM
waterboarding w/medmech
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaRondo View Post
The idea of 'The Final Solution" has yet to be supported by credible and authentic evidence.
jesus christ, were you wearing your swastika when you wrote this? Certainly, the german scum didn't snuff over 6 million jews, communists, gypsies and homosexuals in death camps all over europe, it was all a mistake, a gross misinterpretation..... bullsh$t
  #110  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
Nice attempt at deflection but an utter fail. When confronted by facts that do not match up with your POV you claim that I am irrational and that I loose credibility. That is the best you have? Judging from the responses you are the one who has no credibility. evidence

My fathers personal experience aside, there are reams upon reams of written accounts from survivors such as my father as well as photographic evidence. There are the written accounts of the Nazis who ran the camps. There are the physical ruined of the camps which are shown in the photographic evidence. There is the evidence and testimony given by Eisenhower and the soldiers he brought through the camps.

The fact that you choose to deny all this evidence speaks to your blatant bias. The world knows what happened
With honest regard, you need to apply more precision when reading what I wrote. I never disputed "your facts".
Neither did I call anybody a liar and I am well aware of documentation in existence. That includes contradictory documentation as well.

You are quick to judge others while having little or no insight into their history.
For that matter, I recommend to stay on the ground, don't overwhelm yourself.
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Last edited by LaRondo; 05-23-2012 at 12:09 PM.
  #111  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
How do we know if the native population you speak of did not displace another, earlier native population on this continent? anthroplogists have indicated that the people we call "Indians" came here mostly over a land bridge from north asia. If there was an earlier race of people here, what happened to them? Who grieves for them?

For that matter, who grieves for the neanderthal? Plenty of population migrtions during the millions of years man has been here, someone always loses.

The Holocast however, is a record of the workings and philosophy of an evil body polotic and it's scapegoating of a religion and culture in order to bring about the political and cultural changes it wanted.
Case in point, although in South America are the Mayan, Aztec, and Inca.

All three were neolithic civilisations, and all three were Empires built by extensive conquest, but there was not a whole lot of contact among them.
The Mayans predated the Aztecs: their civilisation had declined before the Aztecs conquered Tenochtitlan quite far to the north.
And the Incas centered in Peru.

The Mayans lived in the Mexican area, and extended into Guatemala.
The Aztec in the Central America area.
The Inca lived on the west coast of South America, around the Andes Mountain/Peru area.
The Olmec were the ancestors of the Mayans-but they all fell around the same time period.

In terms of the North American Indians, I would not feel as comfortable trusting the White mans historical accounts, as much as I would trust the historical accounts of the Tribes themselves that have been passed down through the generations.

What is needed is historical/Anthropoligical research that is current, which looks to be available in the form of the books 1491&1493, that were mentioned by two members here that have read 1491.

Until I have read this new research, I do not feel qualified to speak on this subject,as most of my knowledge was learned from the white mans history books. So I will defer to those two gentlemen who have read the book. Perhaps they can answer your questions/statements.
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  #112  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
sounds like you are quoting the Ameriican Nazi party....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
jesus christ, were you wearing your swastika when you wrote this? Certainly, the german scum didn't snuff over 6 million jews, communists, gypsies and homosexuals in death camps all over europe, it was all a mistake, a gross misinterpretation..... bullsh$t
I pass the word on this one ...
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  #113  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaRondo View Post
With honest regard, you need to apply more precision when reading what I wrote. I never disputed "your facts".
Neither did I call anybody a liar and I am well aware of documentation in existence. That includes contradictory documentation as well.

You are quick to judge others with little or no insight into their history.
For that matter, I recommend to stay on the ground, don't overwhelm yourself.
Don't patronize me you fool. Honest regard? Who do you think you are fooling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaRondo View Post
Many of the so called first hand witness statement turned out to be highly questionable, if not flat out untrue.
You most certainly did dispute the facts and you most certainly did call my father a liar.

You think the likes of you intimidate me? You are fool. You are the equivalent of the flat earth people. You thrive in your ignorance with virtually no facts to back up your BS.

Please do not delude your self in believing I am arguing with you. You are a lost cause. My only concern is those who may be influenced by your drivel. I will not sit idly by and let your lies go uncontested.
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  #114  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
Nice attempt at deflection but an utter fail. When confronted by facts that do not match up with your POV you claim that I am irrational and that I loose credibility. That is the best you have? Judging from the responses you are the one who has no credibility. evidence

My fathers personal experience aside, there are reams upon reams of written accounts from survivors such as my father as well as photographic evidence. There are the written accounts of the Nazis who ran the camps. There are the physical ruined of the camps which are shown in the photographic evidence. There is the evidence and testimony given by Eisenhower and the soldiers he brought through the camps.

The fact that you choose to deny all this evidence speaks to your blatant bias. The world knows what happened
Eisenhower was dead on when he ordered the filming and documentation of everything that was found in those camps, and ordered the local population to be marched thru them to witness what their government had wrought in their name, as he said "otherwise 30 years from now some son of a b#### is going to deny any of this ever happened".

If nothing else, Ike proved he understood human nature all too well.
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  #115  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
Don't patronize me you fool. Honest regard? Who do you think you are fooling?



You most certainly did dispute the facts and you most certainly did call my father a liar.

You think the likes of you intimidate me? You are fool. You are the equivalent of the flat earth people. You thrive in your ignorance with virtually no facts to back up your BS.

Please do not delude your self in believing I am arguing with you. You are a lost cause. My only concern is those who may be influenced by your drivel. I will not sit idly by and let your lies go uncontested.
Thank you for calling me a fool.
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  #116  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilcutt View Post
Case in point, although in South America are the Mayan, Aztec, and Inca.

All three were neolithic civilisations, and all three were Empires built by extensive conquest, but there was not a whole lot of contact among them.
The Mayans predated the Aztecs: their civilisation had declined before the Aztecs conquered Tenochtitlan quite far to the north.
And the Incas centered in Peru.

The Mayans lived in the Mexican area, and extended into Guatemala.
The Aztec in the Central America area.
The Inca lived on the west coast of South America, around the Andes Mountain/Peru area.
The Olmec were the ancestors of the Mayans-but they all fell around the same time period.

In terms of the North American Indians, I would not feel as comfortable trusting the White mans historical accounts, as much as I would trust the historical accounts of the Tribes themselves that have been passed down through the generations.

What is needed is historical/Anthropoligical research that is current, which looks to be available in the form of the books 1491&1493, that were mentioned by two members here that have read 1491.

Until I have read this new research, I do not feel qualified to speak on this subject,as most of my knowledge was learned from the white mans history books. So I will defer to those two gentlemen who have read the book. Perhaps they can answer your questions/statements.
Chilly, I think with this thread you have a pretty good display of the lopsided incarnation pertaining to your OP question.
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  #117  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elchivito View Post
President Obama signed an official resolution of apology in 2009. It got very little press. Interestingly, since Obama is often accused of apologizing to foreign countries, the resolution was initiated by a Republican.

Bill Text - 111th Congress (2009-2010) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Obama has done a fine job of apologizing for damn-near anything. I wouldn't think any particular apology has any special meaning.
  #118  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retmil46 View Post
Eisenhower was dead on when he ordered the filming and documentation of everything that was found in those camps, and ordered the local population to be marched thru them to witness what their government had wrought in their name, as he said "otherwise 30 years from now some son of a b#### is going to deny any of this ever happened".

If nothing else, Ike proved he understood human nature all too well.
well, we now know what Eisenhower would think of LaRondo. Nice to know that in this instance if no other that I share something with Ike.
  #119  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:45 PM
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before this thread gets violent,

On a related topic to the Native American question, heres a very interesting link regarding the annexation of Alaska by the United States, an excerpt-

The United States' strongest argument for claiming Alaska has been occupation settlement—that is, the historical fact that Euro-Americans went to Alaska and stayed there. This is the same basis on which Canada claims the rest of the Arctic, and on which Australia claims the traditional lands of the Aboriginal people. Since Roman times, land that was vacant11 and had no owners could be acquired simply by settling on it. Of course the Americas were already inhabited by millions of Indians and Inuit when Europeans first arrived. The Americas were not "empty" of people, but European lawyers argued that the Americas were "empty" of laws, government, and true religion. In their view, territory was vacant and subject to settlement if its inhabitants were not European Christians.12

the whole link-
The International Legal Status of Native Alaska

A very interesting question, where does one nation on the other side of the world (Russia) get the right to sell a huge section of territory populated by indigenous population to another nation? Chillcut, you may find this fascinating.

I had read a little about the purchase of Alaska, and it certainly poses an interesting question, which the linked article discusses, where the legitimacy of owning Alaska while strong when it was done, eroded as international and National (US) understanding of land claims became less tolerant of claim by conquest and similar.
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  #120  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
Don't patronize me you fool. Honest regard? Who do you think you are fooling?



You most certainly did dispute the facts and you most certainly did call my father a liar.

You think the likes of you intimidate me? You are fool. You are the equivalent of the flat earth people. You thrive in your ignorance with virtually no facts to back up your BS.

Please do not delude your self in believing I am arguing with you. You are a lost cause. My only concern is those who may be influenced by your drivel. I will not sit idly by and let your lies go uncontested.
Exactly.

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