Here are two articles with different outcomes where the LEO came through the door. Unfortunately, both situations had bad outcomes. I'm not so certain knocking the door down and coming in is the right way to attempt to apprehend a perp.

homeowner gets killed

deputy gets killed

It will be interesting to see how the Jolly trial turns out.

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Jim

Jolly

Act like a burglar, expect to be treated as one. "Just doing one's job" isn't an excuse -- ANYONE has the choice to disobey foolish or illegal orders. Mr. Jolly should be released immediately, with a strong apology and full compensation for the years he spent in jail.

The other deputy who killed a homeowner (the WRONG homeowner, no less!) should be given a "Texas necktie party" from the nearest stout tree. Or just thrown in general population. BTW - the second raid wasn't a "no-knock" raid, technically, since they did knock but didn't announce themselves.

It's a sad state of affairs that some neighborhoods are seen as so dangerous that homeowners need to come to the door with a pistol, if someone knocks late at night.

the lesson in the first case is NEVER ANSWER THE DOOR and certainly not with a gun in hand. the cops have a literal license to kill with impunity. shoot first, ask questions later is their motto. it doesn't matter if it's the wrong guy or not, they will open fire.

they then get a paid vacation known as "administrative leave" to spend time with the staff psychologist so that they can "sort out" their feelings about killing the wrong guy. so, think about it, shoot someone (and it doesn't matter if it is the right guy or not, anyone will do) and get to go on PAID vacation plus receive some FREE therapy; could that be considered an incentive to kill?

they wear vests, if someone kicks your door in, go for headshots.....

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Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

the cops study past incidents to help determine how they can step up their game. They intend to obliterate the opposition; that means if it takes a .50 cal, mini gun, street sweeper shot gun, whatever it takes to level your a** that's what they will bring. Look at the Waco incident; Koresh and his untrained-in-the-use-of-a-gun followers had AK-47's while the feds (who train constantly with guns) brought in TANKS with major fire power. kinda like spitting in the wind, the men, women and children of Mt Carmel didn't stand a chance.

best to throw out the white flag and yell, "I GIVE UP!" or "I SURRENDER!". walk out with your hands over your head. perhaps they will allow you to live.

You would have to bring up Janet Reno...... Is she still alive?

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2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

She's still with us. Wasn't it, "I wouldn't have ordered the raid if I had known there were children present....."? yes, and I didn't know that Austin is the capitol of Texas, either.

I think she's looking into becoming a scientologist.

Alive, well and planning her next caper.



The white spot is still there but she looks different some how...

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we can't wait for the sequel to come out.

So explain this to me. If I came at you with an AK-47, what would YOU do? Come at me with a 38 special? Really?

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sorta... the initial raid (in which a college buddy died (ATF agent) was a strictly small arms small unit tactics raid. Poor ass tactics also. If the Davidians would have been actually trained in defending a static defensive position, the ATF would have carried a lot more off that field that day.

the final assualt used a CEV, a variant of an M60 (or M48) that breached the walls and filled the place with CS gas (flamable).

A show raid, all for naught, and lots of people died for nothing. In fact, it triggered the OKC bombing, if you believe McVeigh's story.

ATF could have had local law enforcement gather up Koresh, instead they wanted to look tough and ended up with a slaughter on their hands.

Janet Reno should have been brought up on charges for that debacle, the fascist *****.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Unfortunately he was a casualty due to the stupid planning by Reno and co. Stupidity reins everywhere but it seems the government specializes in it.

The orientals tout a concept known as "one hand clapping". Once ATF knew that their assault was no longer secret, they should have packed it in and gone home. Once pressure is removed, the entire situation diffuses.

No doubt Koresh was guilty of child molestation and should have been arrested. He was seen out jogging and could have easily been picked up; no blood shed was needed. However, it appears that Janet Sterno and Co wanted to go to war.

There is a symbolic side to the event as well; when a fire is started that burns the people and their church building to the ground, it symbolizes the obliteration of their memory and what they stood for. We may not like or agree with a particular religion or faith, but that doesn't give us or the government the right to kill off the followers and especially not to sentence children to death by fire.

This deal was a little to similar to killings by the Nazis using crematoriums. nothing is left of the man, woman or child except for ashes or a burnt corpse in an attempt to obliterate the memory of their existence.