"TARP Was An Abysmal Failure" - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

retmil46 · #1 07-27-2012, 02:26 PM

MTI · #2 07-27-2012, 02:53 PM

I like the part where he grudgingly acknowledges that it "prevented financial Armageddon" . . . and that he's selling a book.

aklim · #3 07-27-2012, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

I like the part where he grudgingly acknowledges that it "prevented financial Armageddon" . . . and that he's selling a book.

Dad bailing me out of jail kept me from getting a bad rap sheet. Sounds like a good thing to me, doesn't it? Oh, BTW, what was Bush II's military record like again? Didn't someone use to say if it wasn't for Dad's help, he'd be dishonorably discharged with a bad rep. How that work out for his Presidential gig?

Pooka · #4 07-28-2012, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Dad bailing me out of jail kept me from getting a bad rap sheet. Sounds like a good thing to me, doesn't it? Oh, BTW, what was Bush II's military record like again? Didn't someone use to say if it wasn't for Dad's help, he'd be dishonorably discharged with a bad rep. How that work out for his Presidential gig?

It reminds me of the time one of the Bush girls' boyfriend got arrested in Fort Worth and she sent the Secret Service to spring him. The Fort Worth Police protested, but the Secret Service just blew them off.

I guess she didn't want the guy to get a bad Rap Sheet.

aklim · #5 07-28-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pooka

It reminds me of the time one of the Bush girls' boyfriend got arrested in Fort Worth and she sent the Secret Service to spring him. The Fort Worth Police protested, but the Secret Service just blew them off.

I guess she didn't want the guy to get a bad Rap Sheet.

Please clarify because I don't seem to grasp what you are saying. Are you saying that it is a good thing for the kid to get bailed out or not? I mean, just that scare will ensure that he never ever does, that, right? That or he will always be dating a girl with SS connections.

mgburg · #6 07-30-2012, 02:28 PM

The key is not whether the bailout is a "get out of Jail for free" card or not...it's what HAPPENS with the individual AFTER he/she is out of jail. Or whatever the circumstance.

Did they learn anything from the experience?
Did they change any life-pattern that was going astray?
Did they, truly, make a change in their path they were heading?

If yes, then it was worth it.
If no, then you have the current situation that we have to deal with every day...recidivism...

Ask a parole board what they use as a standard for 2nd chances...

Ask yourself what constitutes letting the kids off a "punishment" for deeds done badly...

How many "unknown benefactors" have influenced your own lives for whatever reason, and you didn't know at the time, but do now? Do you want a "do over" that takes the other tract just to see how you'd have to deal with the outcome?

Each of us has a certain level of "acceptance" that we equally apply to all. Then comes the time when the "equally" isn't so...

And then we judge the others in harsher terms than we'd judge our own.

Politics will never be level...any way you look at it...and it stems from the belief that the other side had advantages that weren't available to all...just a "select few" - and then the class warfare begins, whether it be about skin color, financial gain or loss, social status (or lack of), educational chances and advantages, just to name a few...

So what that Bush I. got Bush II. a break or five?

Does that mean that "O" gets to be "Executor-Penmeister" and run around the COTUS, SCOTUS, or Congress, for that matter?

TIT for TAT?

He said/He said?

You did too!/I did not!/Did too!/Did not!

I smell anarchy on the horizon...

aklim · #7 07-30-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

The key is not whether the bailout is a "get out of Jail for free" card or not...it's what HAPPENS with the individual AFTER he/she is out of jail. Or whatever the circumstance.

Did they learn anything from the experience?
Did they change any life-pattern that was going astray?
Did they, truely, make a change in their path they were heading?

If yes, then it was worth it.
If no, then you have the current situation that we have to deal with every day...resistivism (sp?/word?)

Ask a parole board what they use as a standard for 2nd chances...

Ask yourself what constitutes letting the kids off a "punishment" for deeds done badly...

How many "unknown benefactors" have influenced your own lives for whatever reason, and you didn't know at the time, but do now? Do you want a "do over" that takes the other tract just to see how you'd have to deal with the outcome?

Each of us has a certain level of "acceptance" that we equally apply to all. Then comes the time when the "equally" isn't so...
(

So what if the lesson to them and others is "If you are big enough, you can take silly risks and do silly things and you have a safety net? If there is no consequence, do you believe there will be a lesson for the most part? What will you do when the next company comes along and does some silly thing and is also "too big to be allowed to fail"? What about the next one and the one after that? Where will you draw the line at?

I believe the word is Recidivism.

Air&Road · #8 07-30-2012, 02:52 PM

Aklim,

That's the problem. We are already down the line with this. It doesn't take very many getting bailed out until we get to the "too big to fail" mentality.

In my lifetime it seemed to START with Chrysler and Jimmy Carter. Once that precedent was set, the door was open. That was the first bailing the kid out of jail. Once he learned he could party down with no consequences, it was all over with.

aklim · #9 07-30-2012, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Aklim,

That's the problem. We are already down the line with this. It doesn't take very many getting bailed out until we get to the "too big to fail" mentality.

In my lifetime it seemed to START with Chrysler and Jimmy Carter. Once that precedent was set, the door was open. That was the first bailing the kid out of jail. Once he learned he could party down with no consequences, it was all over with.

Which brings up my point. We need to let this kid flounder where he may. Sure, it will be painful for the kid and probably the parent but IF the kid gets out with some skin intact, he will learn the hard lesson. IF not, there will be another kid that watches him and decides he will not want the same consequence.

What the principle objection is that 1.5 million jobs will be lost. I have asked several times how they arrived at that number to no avail. Yet it is a nice number much like "Record Profits" we heard of years ago. Nice sound bite.

Nobody ever said it won't be painful much like a parent grieves when their child gets into trouble. However, if we are to survive, we need to deal with the pain and learn from it never to repeat the same mistake. What we are doing is basically taking out a payday loan at $20 per hundred to be repaid in 2 weeks. Well, come 2 weeks, you are now $120 in the hole so you take out a $150 loan and have $30 in your pocket. Life is good till the next time the loan is due and you don't have $180 and so on and so forth.

If we are strong enough to survive this mess, we will emerge stronger. Since it doesn't kill us, it makes us stronger like immunizations. If it does kill us, I suppose it will be sad but we don't deserve to survive it. If by some miracle we survive this one with bailouts, what happens the next time? Worry about it like the payday loan? Unfortunately many seem to want a painless solution and not have to struggle thru the lessons and try to come up with better ways. We just want to be bailed out today and not have to worry about it till the next time and so on.

mgburg · #10 07-30-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

So what if the lesson to them and others is "If you are big enough, you can take silly risks and do silly things and you have a safety net? If there is no consequence, do you believe there will be a lesson for the most part?

The consequence is getting caught in the first place...knowing you're failing in what's expected of you is the given...it's what you DO following that, that's where the lesson has either been learned or spurned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

What will you do when the next company comes along and does some silly thing and is also "too big to be allowed to fail"?

Well...HOPEFULLY someone has been paying attention and the "loophole(s)" have been eliminated or blocked. And that's where the problems end up continuing..."If so-and-so got a break, how come I can't?" At this point, since "O" doesn't have to vet himself to anyone, why not just take Pedro, fresh from a dip across the Rio Grande, and make him the first Hispanic POTUS? Everyone's A.O.K. for the life-time ride of the their lives!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

What about the next one and the one after that? Where will you draw the line at?

See above...close the loopholes that allowed the "gimee" to take place. Otherwise, suffer the consequences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I believe the word is Recidivism.

Yep, found it and corrected it...but you had already grabbed and quoted...not much I can do for you there, partner!

Air&Road · #11 07-30-2012, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Which brings up my point. We need to let this kid flounder where he may. Sure, it will be painful for the kid and probably the parent but IF the kid gets out with some skin intact, he will learn the hard lesson. IF not, there will be another kid that watches him and decides he will not want the same consequence.

What the principle objection is that 1.5 million jobs will be lost. I have asked several times how they arrived at that number to no avail. Yet it is a nice number much like "Record Profits" we heard of years ago. Nice sound bite.

Nobody ever said it won't be painful much like a parent grieves when their child gets into trouble. However, if we are to survive, we need to deal with the pain and learn from it never to repeat the same mistake. What we are doing is basically taking out a payday loan at $20 per hundred to be repaid in 2 weeks. Well, come 2 weeks, you are now $120 in the hole so you take out a $150 loan and have $30 in your pocket. Life is good till the next time the loan is due and you don't have $180 and so on and so forth.

If we are strong enough to survive this mess, we will emerge stronger. Since it doesn't kill us, it makes us stronger like immunizations. If it does kill us, I suppose it will be sad but we don't deserve to survive it. If by some miracle we survive this one with bailouts, what happens the next time? Worry about it like the payday loan? Unfortunately many seem to want a painless solution and not have to struggle thru the lessons and try to come up with better ways. We just want to be bailed out today and not have to worry about it till the next time and so on.

I don't know if we are STRONG enough to survive, but I am certain that we are spoiled enough that we won't.

Once the balance of people sucking on the government teat, rolls over to a percentage that controls the vote we are doomed. We are at that point now. There are more people RIDING in the wagon, than there are people to PULL the wagon. More and more of the pullers are giving up and climbing into the wagon. With more wanting a free ride, the wagon gets heavier and the pullers have a heavier load to pull. There comes a point where the pullers collapse and everyone goes down.

Barring a drastic and unforeseen event to change it, the wagon will be coming to a halt soon.

panZZer · #12 07-30-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

The key is not whether the bailout is a "get out of Jail for free" card or not...it's what HAPPENS with the individual AFTER he/she is out of jail. Or whatever the circumstance.

Did they learn anything from the experience?
Did they change any life-pattern that was going astray?
Did they, truly, make a change in their path they were heading?

If yes, then it was worth it.
If no, then you have the current situation that we have to deal with every day...recidivism...

Ask a parole board what they use as a standard for 2nd chances...

Ask yourself what constitutes letting the kids off a "punishment" for deeds done badly...

How many "unknown benefactors" have influenced your own lives for whatever reason, and you didn't know at the time, but do now? Do you want a "do over" that takes the other tract just to see how you'd have to deal with the outcome?

Each of us has a certain level of "acceptance" that we equally apply to all. Then comes the time when the "equally" isn't so...

And then we judge the others in harsher terms than we'd judge our own.

Politics will never be level...any way you look at it...and it stems from the belief that the other side had advantages that weren't available to all...just a "select few" - and then the class warfare begins, whether it be about skin color, financial gain or loss, social status (or lack of), educational chances and advantages, just to name a few...

So what that Bush I. got Bush II. a break or five?

Does that mean that "O" gets to be "Executor-Penmeister" and run around the COTUS, SCOTUS, or Congress, for that matter?

TIT for TAT?

He said/He said?

You did too!/I did not!/Did too!/Did not!

I smell anarchy on the horizon...

As you drive around --looking for another pot smoker to hit your speed dial on and ruin their life with a ""dangerous drugs" charge.

Im betting you are glad there weren't a bunch of busy bodies with cell phones around when YOU were the stoner "riding around in your Bycycle"
HY Y P O C R I T E.

JamesDean · #13 07-30-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

So what if the lesson to them and others is "If you are big enough, you can take silly risks and do silly things and you have a safety net? If there is no consequence, do you believe there will be a lesson for the most part? What will you do when the next company comes along and does some silly thing and is also "too big to be allowed to fail"? What about the next one and the one after that? Where will you draw the line at?

I believe the word is Recidivism.

We should probably not let the companies get as big as they did so that when/if they do fail they don't threaten to take down the nation's economy or fiscally endanger the millions of people. Not that people aren't fully capable of doing that them selves.

But then when you hear talks of limiting and controlling things like that you get screams of too much government, more deregulation..

So politics come into play...

Benz Fan · #14 07-30-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Aklim,

That's the problem. We are already down the line with this. It doesn't take very many getting bailed out until we get to the "too big to fail" mentality.

In my lifetime it seemed to START with Chrysler and Jimmy Carter. Once that precedent was set, the door was open. That was the first bailing the kid out of jail. Once he learned he could party down with no consequences, it was all over with.

Unless you were born in 1980, you might be a touch off on the inception of bailouts during your lifetime. For convenience sake, let's start at 1970:

Penn Central Railroad - 1970 - Who was the U.S. President at the time?
Lockheed - 1971 - Who was the U.S President at the time?
Franklin National Bank - 1974 - Who was the U.S. President at the time?
New York City - 1975 - Who was the U.S. President at the time?
Chrysler - 1980 - That Damn Spendthrift Peanut Farmer!

Dudesky · #15 07-30-2012, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benz Fan

Unless you were born in 1980, you might be a touch off on the inception of bailouts during your lifetime. For convenience sake, let's start at 1970:

Penn Central Railroad - 1970 - Who was the U.S. President at the time?
Lockheed - 1971 - Who was the U.S President at the time?
Franklin National Bank - 1974 - Who was the U.S. President at the time?
New York City - 1975 - Who was the U.S. President at the time?
Chrysler - 1980 - That Damn Spendthrift Peanut Farmer!

You should have kept going....you were on a roll. How about the airlines?

Anyway, is this a good thing?