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  #1  
Old 10-18-2012, 02:26 AM
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gender wage disparity

I've read statistics that say women are paid only 72% of what men are paid for the comparable jobs. In what fields or industries is this so pervasively the case? Upper management and executive positions come to mind but are there states with a gender specific minimum wage? Are there unions or government institutions that pay women less? There has to be a massive population of women making only half what men make to average out the women in jobs with pay parity. What am I missing?

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  #2  
Old 10-18-2012, 03:24 AM
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I wonder that myself. Unpaid maternity leave mayhap?
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2012, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sixto View Post
I've read statistics that say women are paid only 72% of what men are paid for the comparable jobs. In what fields or industries is this so pervasively the case? Upper management and executive positions come to mind but are there states with a gender specific minimum wage? Are there unions or government institutions that pay women less? There has to be a massive population of women making only half what men make to average out the women in jobs with pay parity. What am I missing?

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The 72% number is skewed. According to http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf

Quote:
it is not possible now, and doubtless will never be possible, to determine reliably whether any portion of the observed gender wage gap is not attributable to factors that compensate women and men differently on socially acceptable bases, and hence can confidently be attributed to overt discrimination against women." The conclusion was based largely on a study by Eric Solberg & Teresa Laughlin (1995), who find that "occupational selection is the primary determinant of the gender wage gap" (as opposed to discrimination) because "any measure of earnings that excludes fringe benefits may produce misleading results as to the existence magnitude, consequence, and source of market discrimination." They found that the average wage rate of females was only 87.4% of the average wage rate of males; whereas, when earnings were measured by their index of total compensation (including fringe benefits), the average value of the index for females was 96.4% of the average value for males.
The skewed lower numbers are politicized during election years for obvious reasons...
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:47 AM
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Well I guess it's not a big deal then. Good.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sixto View Post
I've read statistics that say women are paid only 72% of what men are paid for the comparable jobs. In what fields or industries is this so pervasively the case? Upper management and executive positions come to mind but are there states with a gender specific minimum wage? Are there unions or government institutions that pay women less? There has to be a massive population of women making only half what men make to average out the women in jobs with pay parity. What am I missing?

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I always want to see what they mean when they say, "comparable" jobs.
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  #6  
Old 10-18-2012, 08:15 AM
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I firmly believe that if a woman is doing the same work at the same competency level for the same number of hours per week, she deserves the same pay as a man!

That said, I don't want the GOVERNMENT meddling in such things. It's not a political issue, it is a workplace issue and one that does not involve the kinds of issues that laws should be passed that concern it.

For GOVERNMENT employees, then of course, the government is obliged to see that they are not discriminating in their pay structure and pay properly themselves. Otherwise they need to stay out of it.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:57 AM
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So I wanted to give you some data that should help answer these questions.

Here is a Department of Labor page that shows the difference in median pay between women and men in particular job sectors, that is, comparable jobs. This could reflect 1) women and men having the exact same job title and women getting paid less or 2) men getting promoted and women not getting promoted across all sectors (glass ceiling) or 3) both of those things at once.

Here is a case where women working in the same company and doing the same jobs as men (like the hourly wage jobs) were/are not getting paid the same wage, so it answers that question much more specifically. And Table 7 shows the glass ceiling at work where women aren't getting promoted through the ranks at Walmart.

I think the average is now women making 77% of what men make instead of 72%. And I think it's a combo of women not getting promoted to higher paying roles and also not getting paid as much in any given role as a man would. This is also appears to be true in the science, technology, engineering and math sector too.

Women and Men both earn more with more education, but women have had to have a PhD to earn as much as a man with a BA over a lifetime of employment. And this is what all that money is in material terms.

And here is a really cool chart that I love. It breaks down average wages earned by gender and ethnicity. I hope these help answer your questions. I hope you enjoy these. Personally, I think charts are absolutely the best way to present information.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:08 AM
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I think the question of which industries are the worst for equal pay is really interesting. The study I linked to above as "glass ceiling" shows at the end that there are the fewest women at the top in Construction, Agriculture, Forestry, Fishing and Hunting and Administrative and Support, Waste Management and Remediation Services. That could also be tied up with job segregation though—careers or industries thought of as very male so women either aren't entering (because they're socialized to be girly) or they're not being admitted. Here is a breakdown of pay by "feminine" vs. "masculine" jobs.

EDIT: Just noticed that last one shows how for exact some job descriptions maids are paid less than janitors and hairdressers are paid less than barbers. Ruh roh!
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Last edited by Benzasaurus; 10-18-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzasaurus View Post
So I wanted to give you some data that should help answer these questions.

Here is a Department of Labor page that shows the difference in median pay between women and men in particular job sectors, that is, comparable jobs. This could reflect 1) women and men having the exact same job title and women getting paid less or 2) men getting promoted and women not getting promoted across all sectors (glass ceiling) or 3) both of those things at once.

Here is a case where women working in the same company and doing the same jobs as men (like the hourly wage jobs) were/are not getting paid the same wage, so it answers that question much more specifically. And Table 7 shows the glass ceiling at work where women aren't getting promoted through the ranks at Walmart.

I think the average is now women making 77% of what men make instead of 72%. And I think it's a combo of women not getting promoted to higher paying roles and also not getting paid as much in any given role as a man would. This is also appears to be true in the science, technology, engineering and math sector too.

Women and Men both earn more with more education, but women have had to have a PhD to earn as much as a man with a BA over a lifetime of employment. And this is what all that money is in material terms.

And here is a really cool chart that I love. It breaks down average wages earned by gender and ethnicity. I hope these help answer your questions. I hope you enjoy these. Personally, I think charts are absolutely the best way to present information.

Thanks for taking the time to post these statistics.

They are very interesting and unfortunately not surprising. Beyond gathering data, the government has no business inserting themselves into such an issue. Setting an example would be a good place for them to try to do something about it. I wouldn't even have a problem with them putting on some sort of awareness program to try to encourage fair wages, but no laws should be passed regarding this.
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
I firmly believe that if a woman is doing the same work at the same competency level for the same number of hours per week, she deserves the same pay as a man!

That said, I don't want the GOVERNMENT meddling in such things. It's not a political issue, it is a workplace issue and one that does not involve the kinds of issues that laws should be passed that concern it.

For GOVERNMENT employees, then of course, the government is obliged to see that they are not discriminating in their pay structure and pay properly themselves. Otherwise they need to stay out of it.
what if your neighbor does NOT firmly believe that and acts on his belief that woman are 20% as valuable as men? Hence the purpose of a government regulation that forces those who do not agree to comply.

It is precisely because of government regulation that such miraculous things as safety standards and reasonable work weeks are common place.

Again, its helpful to look beyond your own nose occasionally.
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Benzasaurus View Post
I think the question of which industries are the worst for equal pay is really interesting. The study I linked to above as "glass ceiling" shows at the end that there are the fewest women at the top in Construction, Agriculture, Forestry, Fishing and Hunting and Administrative and Support, Waste Management and Remediation Services. That could also be tied up with job segregation though幼areers or industries thought of as very male so women either aren't entering (because they're socialized to be girly) or they're not being admitted. Here is a breakdown of pay by "feminine" vs. "masculine" jobs.

EDIT: Just noticed that last one shows how for exact some job descriptions maids are paid less than janitors and hairdressers are paid less than barbers. Ruh roh!
There are actual differences in the physicality of men and women. Women are generally not as suited for jobs requiring great physical strength--i.e. construction, etc. Not necessarily "discriminating, but more or less natural selection.

You fail to point out the lack of women in Major League Baseball, the NFL, and the NBA.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:23 PM
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There are actual differences in the physicality of men and women. Women are generally not as suited for jobs requiring great physical strength--i.e. construction, etc. Not necessarily "discriminating, but more or less natural selection.
So this is what I said, one more time: "The study I linked to above as "glass ceiling" shows at the end that there are the fewest women at the top in Construction, Agriculture, Forestry, Fishing and Hunting and Administrative and Support, Waste Management and Remediation Services." So, not sure why you're attacking something I didn't say.

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You fail to point out the lack of women in Major League Baseball, the NFL, and the NBA.
Are you talking about the players or the corporations?
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Benzasaurus View Post
So this is what I said, one more time: "The study I linked to above as "glass ceiling" shows at the end that there are the fewest women at the top in Construction, Agriculture, Forestry, Fishing and Hunting and Administrative and Support, Waste Management and Remediation Services." So, not sure why you're attacking something I didn't say.



Are you talking about the players or the corporations?

It would seem natural that there would not be as many women at the top of these organizations, because there are not as many women IN these organizations. You're doing great with your research and presentation of statistics, but don't leave common sense out of the equation.
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  #14  
Old 10-18-2012, 01:39 PM
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It would seem natural that there would not be as many women at the top of these organizations, because there are not as many women IN these organizations. You're doing great with your research and presentation of statistics, but don't leave common sense out of the equation.
I'm not sure it follows that there are few women at the top because there are few women throughout. What physical practice with hammering nails or gutting fish do CFOs need in order to know how to balance the books?
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:20 PM
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I'm not sure it follows that there are few women at the top because there are few women throughout. What physical practice with hammering nails or gutting fish do CFOs need in order to know how to balance the books?
Are you saying that knowledge of the details of a business are not important for the people who make the top decisions?

I used to be of the opinion that a person who has good management skills can successfully manage nearly any business. I no longer hold that view, as I believe that knowledge of how the business operates is important to managing it.
There are 2 sides to this issue--I am just giving my opinion. As historical background, consider the situation of Ford Motor during the 1950s and 60s. HF2 brought in Tex Thornton and his "wiz Kids" to help run Ford because it was in poor shape--old Henry was a despot and did not like managers at the end of his life. But the battle was formed between "car guys" and "finance guys". Each side held the other in rather low esteem.

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