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#46
12-12-2012, 07:42 PM
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#47
12-12-2012, 08:17 PM
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1. Is there a way to see what you are using currently? 2. What will the AVERAGE output of this system be based on your area? 3. When you say $9000, do you mean you write a check for it or take a loan? 4. Assuming you write a check, did you compute the interest if you had left it in the bank? 5. What is the lifespan of such a system? 6. What are the possible repairs to be done? 7. Is this 15 years at best case scenario or did you give yourself some cushion?
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#48
12-13-2012, 02:24 AM
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Do a google on "whole house fan" and you'll get some many hits, you won't be able to read them. A WHF mounts in the ceiling rafter and draws the air UP through the house and exhausts the heat into the attic. Some can cool 2000 sg ft depending on the fan blade size and motor HP. Certainly in So Cal, Aug thru Oct was hot but it always cooled off after 8-9pm. Having a WHF, would quickly cool the house off even if the temp was 95+ during the day. It's MUCH cheaper than running AC.
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#49
12-13-2012, 02:30 AM
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How are you getting back $6,000 in CA?? What am I missing?? I guess the FED and CITY rebates are very good?? Last edited by JimF; 12-13-2012 at 02:49 AM.
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#50
12-13-2012, 10:44 PM
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FYI, you raise some excellent points. Thanks!
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#51
12-13-2012, 10:45 PM
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#52
12-13-2012, 10:54 PM
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That's very interesting . . . a "city-rebate" of $2,500? Never heard of this before. There's no city rebate in San Diego . . so you better be sure about that. Electric prices will continue to go up (as I showed; $0.03 10yrs ago to $0.13 today), so the system will pay for itself pretty quickly. Things to consider: 1) The solar panels s/b warranted for 20 years . . . unconditionally. Sometimes picking the "today's hot-panel" will get you in trouble down the road. A Story . . . Apx 11 years ago, the "hot' panel was made by a company who is no longer in business! It had 10% more output than others. When I couldn't get it (out-of-stock), I selected Kyocera PV panels. After 10 years, there was a problem with some of the panels (eutectic) such that the panel's output was practically 'zero'. About 14 of the 24 panels had this problem. Kyocera not only warranted the panels (all 24 of them) and paid for the removal and replacement for each (24) at no cost to me. Ended up with basically new PV panels after 10 years and I have another 20 year warranty! I shouldn't have to tell you how much that cost! So choose wisely . . . 
Last edited by JimF; 12-14-2012 at 02:20 AM.
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#53
12-13-2012, 10:59 PM
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The City of Glendale offers rebates on a first come basis.
This was one of our main points of contention since they're on a June fiscal year. The installer agreed to write up a contract with a contingency if the city rebate falls through; in that case we wouldn't be on the hook to consumate the installation. The good part is they have a person on-site that is familiar with the process and completes all the required forms for us so we get the rebate request in immediately.
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#55
12-13-2012, 11:44 PM
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I believe what the solar guy said is thay are closed for 2012 as of June, but there's a wait list for 2013, which is the list we'd be applying to get on. So we'd find out early 2013 whether or not they've accepted our application for FY 2012-13 and once we get confirmation we can proceed with the install. Although, it still seems a bit sketchy, which is why we're insisting on a contingency.
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#56
12-14-2012, 01:39 AM
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One thing perhaps not factored in is if the property taxes wil be left alone or otherwise. Plus does it also increase the homes value?
Thats if you have a time frame you might wish to vend it in. You could recover some of the cost I would think. Some places do not add to the assesment values for energy saving upgrades. We have the vacuum metalaisation equipment so if time permits I might look into the posssibility of manufacturing our own photovotalic panels. Much may depend on material availability..I suspect the technology is managable but have not even checked that out. The problem as usual is we just do not get enough time to get to everything. We installed a very powerful coolant loop system about thirty years ago. That was an eye opener about collector surfaces deteriouration efficiency wise from uv. We built all the collectors back then using black chrome on copper as the collection surface. Cost four K in materials. We calculated it would take 1.6 gallons of oil per day year long to replace the energy collected when it initially went into service. That was not that big a deal way back then when energy was so cheap in comparison to today. Now it represents about 6.00 per day except we can not and never could use that energy in the summer time as we have no pool. Plus the collector orientation is fixed for the winter cycle primarily. Just providing hot domestic water seemed not that great a challenge for the system. Our attached thousand square foot garage would sit at ninety degrees on sunny days through the coldest parts of the winter. The thermal mass of thick floor we poured with tubing incorporated would keep the garage temperature up fairly well for severtal days with no sun even. The system continues to loose a little more efficiency every year. The heaviest efficiency hits where during the first two to three years. My guess about the future has not changed yet. We in my opinion will see either rampant inflation or some form of collapse with time. My money is on inflation for a long period first. We are financially quite liquid currently and I really do not like it. Still at our age we cannot think long term. It just seems to me that what is currently practiced by governements in north america at most levels is not sustainable. So there will be issues.The gamble with the system seems to be more positive than negative. But you have to have a warranty on the panels that must be honoured if needed as well. I have little trust in compounds exposed to heavy uv radiation over time. The glass covers even weather with time from the more common elements. What has become more obvious to us over time is keeping a system simple is perhaps less efficient but it should last longer and be cheaper overall. Cost may be an unavoidable item with photovotalic panels. I am just finishing yet another house build. I attempted to use every trick I knew to reduce energy costs. We have a half price electricity program for off hours and all weekends. So the house was also targeted for it. Three thousand buys the ceramic heter storage item and computorised controls plus the right to half priced power for the whole house for the specified periods. Combined with how this house is built it all should work out well. Air conditioning is not an issue as far north as we are. May use it in our cars perhaps ten days a summer at most. Last edited by barry12345; 12-14-2012 at 01:57 AM.
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#57
12-14-2012, 02:18 AM
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As you read, the Glendale program was closed as of 9/4/12 but I'm sure it was filled up much earlier. So get you app in as soon as possible. But even if you make the list, that doesn't mean you will get a rebate. If the $$ runs out due to a city emergency, you will SOL. The website showed $1.86/watt which really good. That plus the state rebate (peanuts) and fed tax income reduction, you'll should do very well. I put my own system in . . you should consider doing that. Find a good electrical tech that's on the "qualified" list and buy the parts yourself. I bought most of the solar 'stuff' from out-of-state saving sales tax. Also shopped around for best prices.
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#58
12-14-2012, 11:57 AM
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Thanks for the feedback barry. Jim, as far as installation goes, I really don't have the time/expertise to take on a project of this scope. That's why I picked this local company. Another thing, SunPro doesn't sell directly to individuals; one has to go through an approved installer/distributor to get their panels. We figured we'd go with them since they've completed large scale installs for the gov't, including defense and energy departments. My logic is if they're into the gov't then someone hopefully did some thorough due-diligence on them and their financial viability. I breifly looked over their financials, but since they got a large infusion from the Fed, it is kinda hard to see how they would stand. My guess is they were struggling along, until the fed injected some capital into them. After that, Total bought them, so now they seem to be doing ok. I guess the city rebate is something we'll need to discuss in further detail with the installer this weekend. Thanks for raising these good points.
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#59
12-14-2012, 01:20 PM
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You read my 'panel' story in post 52 and so today's hot company may be tomorrow's bankruptcy! Kyocera has been making panels forever and, as my story told, stands by their work with their $$$ to make good on warranties! Anyway, good luck and keep us all posted with what happens.
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#60
01-09-2013, 01:15 PM
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The SMA TL-US series has added a unique Emergency Power Supply (EPS) feature providing daytime power to a dedicated power socket in the event of a grid power outage. The power socket is isolated from the grid during the outage and supplies up to 15 Amps so long as the PV system is generating. Nice feature but, of course, only good during daylight hours. But better than nothing.
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