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View Poll Results: Do you accept Jesus as your Saviour?
Yes I Do 17 44.74%
No I Don't 21 55.26%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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  #241  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Does nature really matter?
Only to some small degree. I only brought it up because Martureo was claiming pregnancy was natural and abortion not.
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  #242  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:21 PM
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I'm done with discussing the abortion issue. It is very depressing to see so many cold hearted people saying so many cold hearted things.

I'll talk to you guys again on the next issue.
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  #243  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
I'm done with discussing the abortion issue. It is very depressing to see so many cold hearted people saying so many cold hearted things.

I'll talk to you guys again on the next issue.
You can discuss any issue you want but it still gets back to the religious folk pushing OPINION on to others that might not share their OPINION. If there were facts, perhaps something can be worked out.
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  #244  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
You can discuss any issue you want but it still gets back to the religious folk pushing OPINION on to others that might not share their OPINION. If there were facts, perhaps something can be worked out.

I certainly am glad that you didn't tell me that you had the facts and all I had was opinion. BTW, although I present my opinion, I do not try to PUSH it on anyone.

I'll see ya' on the next one.
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  #245  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
I certainly am glad that you didn't tell me that you had the facts and all I had was opinion.

I'll see ya' on the next one.
I can make facts up all day long if you want.
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  #246  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
I can make facts up all day long if you want.

PLEASE don't do that. I don't consider you to be a liberal.
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  #247  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
^^^^^ This kind of irrational fanaticism is a crystal clear example of one of the reasons I have a severe distaste for organised religion ....
I point out your completely irrational statement and I get called irrational and fanatical?

Really!?
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  #248  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
No, that's not what Pelagius believed. He believed that humans were free enough to choose God's grace on their own. God didn't have to cause the choice. He never held that humans could save themselves, only that they could choose God's salvation of their own accord. Exactly what CLK was advocating.
No, once again you are wrong.

Pelagius believed that:
-man requires no divine aid to perform good works
-man is able to fulfill the requirements of the Law perfectly and unaided
-man is not bound/effected by original sin
-man has a free will and is able to choose good or evil in his natural state


That is a far cry from what CLK was promoting. I'd bet money that CLK believed in Total Depravity as well as Original sin and was talking about man having the ability to choose AFTER being enabled by God.
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  #249  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:51 PM
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That's false. Abortion is as natural as pregnancy. God and women's bodies aborts via miscarriages in the hundreds of thousands every day.
No, that is spontaneous abortion.

Now unless you were on a discussion board and in a certain thread talking about the legal/moral issues of spontaneous abortion (which this isn't), you are just conflating the issue.

Stop it with the nonsense Kerry, your antics are getting old.

And btw, spontaneous abortions (miscarriages) are a perversion, a reaction. They are the result of something going WRONG in a pregnancy. They cannot exist apart from a pregnancy and are only the failure, calling off, or "canceling" of a pregnancy. They are as natural as blocked sinuses. But clear sinuses are what the natural idea is.
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  #250  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by martureo View Post
No, that is spontaneous abortion.

Now unless you were on a discussion board and in a certain thread talking about the legal/moral issues of spontaneous abortion (which this isn't), you are just conflating the issue.

Stop it with the nonsense Kerry, your antics are getting old.

And btw, spontaneous abortions (miscarriages) are a perversion, a reaction. They are the result of something going WRONG in a pregnancy. They cannot exist apart from a pregnancy and are only the failure, calling off, or "canceling" of a pregnancy. They are as natural as blocked sinuses. But clear sinuses are what the natural idea is.
No it is you that is confusing the issue. Regardless of how the fetus aborts, unless it is really alive, it is little more than a blob of cells that you gave some identity to.
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  #251  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:15 PM
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A "blob of tissue?"

The Silent Scream – Ultrasound Video of a Baby Being Brutally Aborted LEADING MALAYSIAN NEOCON
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  #252  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
No it is you that is confusing the issue. Regardless of how the fetus aborts, unless it is really alive, it is little more than a blob of cells that you gave some identity to.
Sorry, I haven't given you identity. Therefore you aren't a human.

And no, the issue is COMPLETELY different. One is a non-essential, uncessary, artificial and dangerous action by someone and the other is the body's own reaction to a problem. If you can't see the difference then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
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  #253  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:25 PM
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I've read that and seen that. What I haven't seen yet is the fetus going thru the SAME tests that the doctor uses when he/she declares death. If it is good enough for you and me, why not the fetus? Unless you are trying to use the test that is convenient to make your answer come out, aka stacking the deck.

Sharing some features that we have it not the same as being the same. Just like me going thru some medical classes doesn't allow me to call myself Doctor XYZ.
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  #254  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by martureo View Post
Sorry, I haven't given you identity. Therefore you aren't a human.

And no, the issue is COMPLETELY different. One is a non-essential, uncessary, artificial and dangerous action by someone and the other is the body's own reaction to a problem. If you can't see the difference then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
It's very simple. If you want to call it a human being and thus accord it the rights you and I have, why you don't use the same medical tests to declare death to prove it is alive is mystifying. That test is the standard test that you and I and every other human gets to go thru so why not this fetus that you claim is human?

Either way, the fetus is gone. I am not a big worshiper of nature don't simply say that if that was how I came, that is how I must remain.
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  #255  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:31 PM
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It's very simple. If you want to call it a human being and thus accord it the rights you and I have, why you don't use the same medical tests to declare death to prove it is alive is mystifying. That test is the standard test that you and I and every other human gets to go thru so why not this fetus that you claim is human?
This is a logical fallacy. Any test for death is not inversely valid to determine life.

Secondly, you are talking about medical death. Both of use would probably agree that a patient being kept on life support with no brain activity would not be "alive". So why the double standard when it comes to fetuses?
Quote:
Either way, the fetus is gone.
Oversimplification.

One man died because someone else stabbed him in the heart during an argument. The second man died because he had a heart attack as the result of poor eating and exercise habits.

They both died right? So it's not important..... right?
Quote:
I am not a big worshiper of nature don't simply say that if that was how I came, that is how I must remain.
I'm not sure, but it sounds as if you just knocked down a straw man. I cannot begin to understand what you were trying to communicate.
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