I'm refurbishing a 1960 single story ranch and am replacing the original galvanized with PEX.

I've contacted 4 licensed plumbers and got one written estimate that's lacking in details but not lacking in cost. I've also got a referral to another plumber, a promise of an estimate to be sent 4 days ago that hasn't shown up yet, and a verbal "I usually work off the books, only on weekends and evenings, but if you pull the permit and buy the materials I can do the job over a couple week period."

City code permits the homeowner to do the work, so I'm looking at DIY'ing the whole house. It's a single story ranch with attic access and existing galvanized in the attic. There are no lines in the slab. It's a 2 bath house and they butt against each other. One is completely gutted. The laundry abuts the kitchen and those walls are also open, so access is basically unlimited. The house is supplied by 3/4 copper that was installed in the past few years so the main from the meter through the slab is good. There is a water softener currently tied into the galvanized via PEX. The run from the main supply and/or the heater to the baths is about 75 feet. There are three hose bibbs that currently run off softened water that I'd tie into hard water instead since their primary use is gardening.

I've run the numbers and come up with ballpark estimates for materials to be between $800-1500 dollars depending on the quantity of manifolds required. My basic design plan is a 3/4 line from the softener to a tankless heater. From the tankless heater to the bath areas will be one 3/4 cold, one 3/4 hot supply and a 3/4 hot return for the recirc function. These lines supply the manifolds for about 75-80 feet each. The kitchen and bath are located near the heater, so they may connect directly or via intermediate manifolds. Each hose bibb would be run via a direct 3/4 line tee-d prior to the softener, so figure two more at about 75 each since one hose is right next to the house supply.

For plumbers or those with experience, is that a realistic window for a materials estimate for the PEX for a single story two-bath? My numbers more/less match the verbal from the off the books plumber but the written estimate is silent on materials vs. labor.

What type of connection system is recommended? The Wirsbo/Uponor expander gets high marks but is also costly. Is the ease and security better than the crimp fittings?

What about terminating into the shutoffs? City code still says shutoffs at every toilet/sink, so a valve at the manifold doesn't save anything. Are there pros/cons with using one system (e.g. Wirsbo) when it comes to selection or availability of terminations or valves?

What about water hammer? Code also requires protection on: washing machines, dishwashers, tubs, showers and kitchen sinks. I'd also like to put one on the fridge ice maker line to stop the "kachunk" in the line when it cycles. I've seen a variety from Sioux Chief, go with these?

Thermal expansion/contraction: any preferred techniques for leaving slack in the lines? Are there rules of thumb for where to place the loops or leave the bends?

I have not seen any bonding of electrical ground lines to the current galvanized, so that doesn't appear to be a factor. Are there any other oddities like this that I should look out for?

Thanks.

I replumbed about a 1/3rd of my house with PEX a couple of months ago. It involved a bath a kitchen and laundry room. First time I used it. Very quick and easy. Used the stainless crimped clamps. Simple and effective. Bought all my materials at Home Depot. Your estimate on materials seems high to me. I spent a couple of hundred dollars on mine. I didn't put in any hammer protection device on the washing machine. Haven't had any problems with it. I did cut into some copper with a grounding cable on it. I jumped the PEX with a heavy copper wire to keep the ground effective. With a helper (my wife helped me), you should be able to complete it in 2 days.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I installed hydronic heat in my house with pex. Its quick and easy with no need to sweat copper in the crawl space. the crimper was about $150 I think.

Even "real" plumbers here are trying to get away with this quick to fit technology. Their per job rates haven't gone down but the time they take to do the job most certainly has.

The stuff I've seen the most of here is this stuff =>

Speedfit

John Guest - The World Leader in Push-fit Fittings, Pipe and Plastic Plumbing Systems - Home

I remember selling stuff like that about 25 years ago - I'm guessing it has improved since then.

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

I love those shark bite fittings.

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1984 300SD Orient Red/ Palomino
1989 560SEC
2016 Mazda 6 6 speed manual
1995 Ford F-150 reg cab 4.9 5speed manual

I used sharkbites when attaching the pex to copper. They are a minor miracle and I like the fact they are reusable. The crimping tool for the clamps is only about $30.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I think I saw on one of the pex supply sites that in some locales the Shark Bite-type fittings aren't yet approved for in-wall locations and you need access panels. I can't find that level of specificity in the local City code. Since the attic is accessible, I would assume that wouldn't be a factor for most of the manifolds and may only come into play near the angle stops.

My accounting shows I need 10 x 100' lengths of PEX in 3/4 and 1/2 diameters and colors, so the tubing cost should be around $500.

I also count 58 fittings (basic assumption that every length of PEX needs 2) and various manifolds depending on final layout so that's where my variables come from in materials cost.

Since the current water softener install appears to have been done by drunken clowns who moonlight as plumbers, I may move that to where I intend its final location to be using the Sharkbites as a test case. The supply for that is via PEX w/compression and the brine waste line is via CPVC to the washing machine box.

Color coding (Red/Blue) is req by code AFIAK. Shut offs at the fixture are also Code but also smart (do you want to haul all to the manifold if there is a problem at the sink/toilet or just reach down and twist?). For water hammer protection, I have always used AMTROL units.

I did my entire house including water softener, tie-in to geothermal for de-superheater, R/O drinking system, dishwasher, two baths with walk-in shower, etc. all in PEX. It was all under the house in a crawlspace.
I like the crimp bands without the "kink" in them. Not sure what they are called. But the ones I used slipped on with some difficulty and crimped to hold the fitting without any kinks or anything on the clamp. You also need a different crimper for each line size.
I had a lot of distance to cover so I bought mine in rolls. Cheaper but a pain in the entire @$$ when it's time to make a straight run. Also, the straight sticks are more pleasing to the eye when installed. Looks like from the numbers you mention that straight sticks (usually 20') are out of the question so get plenty of pipe hangers to tie it to the joists and keep it straighter.
Where you need brass fittings it's very difficult to find NOT made in China articles so if your experience mirrors mine you'll need lots of teflon tape on the threaded unions. Seems their thread specs are fairly tolerant . Or if you can find made in USA fittings use them unless the cost is prohibitive.
Use PVC cutters since a hacksaw will mutilate the pipe and make it harder to work with and uglier. And build a little schrader valve/pressure gauge setup so you can air up the system (50psi or so) and watch for leakdown.
The worst part about PEX is when you have to take a joint apart and redo something. Quickest way is to have plenty of fittings and just cut out the one and put in a new one. Slowest way if you don't have plenty of fittings and the store is closed is to use a dremel to cut off the band.
Hope this helps and good luck.

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1983 M-B 240D-Gone too.
1976 M-B 300D-Departed.

"Good" is the worst enemy of "Great".

Yeah, the ratcheting PVC pipe cutters are the way to go.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I've read there are issues with some of the current generation brass fittings due to the removal of lead to meet lead-free requirements. The fittings are brittle or leach water or split, so I'd be inclined to use the PE manifolds, if available.

Availability of connection-type-specific valves is a factor so I can avoid threaded connections unless absolutely necessary. I've seen the PEX-to-copper stubout, then sweat fit to a traditional valve and also the PEX-direct-to-valve.

I agree with the loose thread specs on the Made-in-China parts. When gutting the bathroom and removing the dishwasher I was trying to cap off the lines. I was stunned at how much tape I had to apply to get a simple nipple cap to not leak. Undamaged threads on both parts, wire brushed clean, wrap twice in tape: drip drip drip. Try again with old-fashioned joint dope: drip drip drip. Try again with about six or seven wraps of teflon tape: no drip. This was on both a 1/2 galvanized nipple and on a brass 3/8 compression, both brand new.

I think the Sioux Chief advertise they're made in USA, so I'm leaning towards them for the water hammer devices, but I'll look at the Amtrol.