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  #1  
Old 01-25-2013, 09:52 PM
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Exclamation Range Supply Line Shorted -- What Caused It???

I have a 24 year old Jenn Air model S120 down draft electric slide in range. Both the cook top cartridges and the oven stopped heating at the same time. The fan and indicator lights worked, but nothing heated up.

I checked the 50 amp double pole breaker at the panel and see 122 volts on each leg and 245 volts between the two legs. I cut the power off and slid the unit out from the counter, opened the access panel on the back and find this:



The leg utilizing the white wire is burned and completely disconnected from the lug on the back of the range. (It looks like it is connected in the pic, but the lug has separated from the terminal block.) The black wire looks like the day I installed it 24 years ago.

1) What causes this? I see heat damage and corrosion. I realize a loose connection will heat up but I _think_ this connection was tight. It worked fine for 24 years. It's copper wire, by the way.
2) Would you clean up the wire and terminal block (probably have to replace the terminal block -- if it's still available) and reconnect everything?
3) How close do you think we were to experiencing a fire?

Replacing the range with a downdraft model is going to be expensive and a real headache. I've already agreed to buy my wife a gas downdraft range when this one gives up the ghost. That means running a new gas line from one side of my house to another and probably some cabinet and granite modifications as well.

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Old 01-25-2013, 10:02 PM
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Loose or corroded wire I'd say. I've had a similar thing happen to a stove. Replaced with new wire and it worked fine.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:06 PM
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Be sure to replace the terminal block as well as a more updated range cord. I have seen that many times. It happens a lot with dryers. Wire gets warm, cools, then warms again. Throw in a bit of corrosion, and you will end up with a loose connection that will get hot and burn.

The fact that it made it that long tells me it was hooked up proper
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:13 PM
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i would say those extremely oxidized and rusted connections are the issue
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:46 PM
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had something similar but not that bad on my hot tub.it was loose.had to wire brush the threads and cut the bad part off the wire and redo it and all is fine now.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:09 PM
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All good news. Looks like this is a fairly common occurrence. So I just ordered a new terminal block and will plan to cut off the heat damaged part of the wire and re-terminate it to the new terminal block.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lorainfurniture View Post
Be sure to replace the terminal block as well as a more updated range cord.
Not sure what you mean by a more updated range cord. When I built this house, I pulled the appropriate size wire from the panel to the range location and terminated it directly on the range terminal block. Hope you're not suggesting I pull a new wire.

Thanks everyone. I really don't want to replace this range yet.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunedog View Post
I pulled the appropriate size wire from the panel to the range location and terminated it directly on the range terminal block. .
I don't particularly care for that setup at the terminal ends. It appears that the individual wire leads are secured underneath the nut and and washer. The contact between the washer and the wires is not too good.

Such an application really demands a proper ring terminal unless the stove is designed for individual wire strands, which most are not.

Those power leads draw quite a bit of current and you can see the result if the contact surfaces are marginal.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
I don't particularly care for that setup at the terminal ends. It appears that the individual wire leads are secured underneath the nut and and washer. The contact between the washer and the wires is not too good.

Such an application really demands a proper ring terminal unless the stove is designed for individual wire strands, which most are not.

Those power leads draw quite a bit of current and you can see the result if the contact surfaces are marginal.
Then I'll terminate the wires with ring terminals. Good idea. Thanks.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:33 PM
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I would terminate that wire to a stove receptacle. Then hook up the stove with a standard 3 wire stove plug. It makes it easier to disconnect your stove because you can simply, and safely unplug it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sunedog View Post
Then I'll terminate the wires with ring terminals. Good idea. Thanks.
Unless you own the proper crimper (which I never procured), I'd use a touch of solder in the crimp of the ring terminal to ensure the same thing doesn't occur between the crimp on the ring terminal and the wire.

I've done this on the alternator on the W126 for the same reason.
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorainfurniture View Post
I would terminate that wire to a stove receptacle. Then hook up the stove with a standard 3 wire stove plug. It makes it easier to disconnect your stove because you can simply, and safely unplug it.
Definitely.

This is the safest approach and probably required by code anyway. The stove wire has ring terminals at its ends (with factory crimps).


You must have dealt with a few stoves over the years................
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  #12  
Old 01-26-2013, 12:12 AM
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Aside from being convenient to unplug for service I cannot see any safety advantage to adding a plug into the circuit. Seems better to hard wire to me. Adding a plug seems to me to be adding a weak link and one more place to potentially fail in the middle.
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  #13  
Old 01-26-2013, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Aside from being convenient to unplug for service I cannot see any safety advantage to adding a plug into the circuit. Seems better to hard wire to me. Adding a plug seems to me to be adding a weak link and one more place to potentially fail in the middle.
A proper plug for a stove has factory crimped eyelet connectors and would probably have prevented the failure as shown in the photo.

Therefore, there is definitely a safety advantage to wiring the stove per the code. A properly designed plug is most definitely not a "weak link".
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  #14  
Old 01-26-2013, 12:37 AM
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As said before, buy a proper appliance cord rated for 50 amps. It will have flexible stranded wire with ring connectors already installed. Install the matching 50 amp receptacle in the wall. If you don't have a box in the wall for the recep (which judging by the direct hookup of the feed wire you probaly don't) you can get a surface mounted "tombstone" receptacle that will attach to the wall or floor. Also replace the terminal block. Your problem stemmed from the improper use of romex being terminated under the lug. No way to get a good, tight, permanent connection, which causes resistance, which causes heat, which causes more resistance, which causes more heat, etc. etc. Fix this and all will be well again!
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Aside from being convenient to unplug for service I cannot see any safety advantage to adding a plug into the circuit. Seems better to hard wire to me. Adding a plug seems to me to be adding a weak link and one more place to potentially fail in the middle.
Ovens are hardwired and come with a whip factory installed. They may exist, but I have never seen or hooked up a hardwired stove. All stoves used to come with a cord attached, but now they leave it up to the customer to do that to save themselves a few bucks! Same with disposals, dishwashers, and some furnaces. If you think a plug is a potential failure area, you should see what an amateur with wirenuts can do.

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