NYC apartment market is insane - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

spdrun · #31 02-03-2013, 09:59 AM

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Originally Posted by Stoney

Harlem is now out of reach for anyone but RWP's (Rich White Professionals) and for the first time in 50 years has a larger Caucasian population than Minority population.

If you're talking about new-build or newly-converted stuff, sure. That doesn't comprise the entirety of Harlem though.

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Forget Queens- Astoria and LIC are now out of reach for anyone making less than $150K and the wave is moving East.

Primarily new-build luxury buildings, industrial stuff, and un-split houses there, so that would make sense.

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The asking price in my Coop development has jumped again and is almost at 2007 prices ($359K for a 2 BR Garden Coop). I paid $85K in 1985.

I'm not seeing this for non-luxury co-ops in Manhattan (unfortunately, since I own one). Maybe 5-10% rise since 2009 when I bought in my building.

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The city is also building a lot more schools in areas that have increased "new" populations (read RWP).10 new schools are in construction and 5 large Industrial buildings in Manhattan and Brooklyn are being turned into schools.

The only good thing is it is fixing the tax base.

I don't know -- having a decent public educational system is a good thing. City shouldn't only be reserved for 20-somethings and empty-nesters -- if anything, that's a return to normalcy. Unlike somewhere like San Francisco which has more dogs than kids.

t walgamuth · #32 02-03-2013, 12:20 PM

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Originally Posted by spdrun

That's actually pretty high for Indiana, or so it would seem.

I'm looking at a short-sale investment condo in San Diego (read: accepted offer waiting for short approval) -- 600 sf 1 bdr in a stable complex with ample reserves and low-ish carrying charges. Going rent seems to be about $900-1000/mo at most. Enough to cash flow after mortgage and expenses, actually, but not as high as could be expected for a decent location about 10 min from the beach cities.

of course its all dependent upon location. I am sure you can find an apartment with equal amenities within ten miles of mine but for about half the cost, in a less desirable location. I am on a free shuttle line to the university in an area with good night spots you can have a good meal a few drinks and walk a block or two home. I also am in the main historic district with lovely restored historic buildings all around (mine included).

spdrun · #33 02-03-2013, 12:32 PM

Since we're comparing "good" areas, I don't see my comparison as inapt.

t walgamuth · #34 02-03-2013, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Since we're comparing "good" areas, I don't see my comparison as inapt.

I had no intent to downgrade your example, just commenting on why I can get the rent I do....agreeing with you actually.

Stoney · #35 02-03-2013, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

If you're talking about new-build or newly-converted stuff, sure. That doesn't comprise the entirety of Harlem though.
Wrong-Row houses and Brownstones from 110th St North to 145th Street have been bought and gut renovated. Many buildings I saw in 200-2006 as empty or multi family have been bought by Real Estate groups and gut renoed and sold to folks who don't want to live in Jersey, Brooklyn or Queens.

Primarily new-build luxury buildings, industrial stuff, and un-split houses there, so that would make sense.

Many 3 deck and 4 deck rehabs in LIC and Astoria are now above working mans wages. Lots of small landlords who just want higher rents. North Astoria is holding to old school but South of Astoria Blvd its $$$. True the new developments like the Power Plant building are drawing the big $$ but the mid price vacancies are extremely hard to find.

I'm not seeing this for non-luxury co-ops in Manhattan (unfortunately, since I own one). Maybe 5-10% rise since 2009 when I bought in my building.

I didn't say Manhattah- Again Middle Class and Working class housing in Queens-the base Garden Apartment Cops that built the boro Post WW2. Clearview, DeepDale, Bayside, Glen Oaks, Parkway Gardens.
Manhattan Coops have risen too but they are in competition with the lux/high rise markets. the Boros are not.

In Brooklyn, there is a group buying 6 story and smaller factory buildings in Bushwick, Glendale, Richmond Hill and converting them to residentials at $2000 a month for a 1BR. What working class or even Middle class family can afford that? Surprising Bloomie has not pushed for reasonable housing for the lower incomes? No money in it for his buddies. The last major "affordable" housing in Brooklyn was Reingold Gardens and the 3 decker row houses in Bed Stuy. the only reason was to use up the "blood money" from the Chase/CitiBank red lining judgements. Banco de Ponce/Bank Leumi bought the obligations from Chase/Citi and matched with city/state $ top build them and sell at $385K per house. Same with Reingold-Blood Money from the 1980's used to build a neighborhood in Bushwick. Nothing built since. Same was done in Harlem in the early 2000's and those houses are presently changing hands to non minority owners.

The same group is buying in Upper Manhattan Broadway. Former hotels now apartments with Section 8 residents who will be rolled over and the apartments warehoused until the building is empty and then renovated for 1 and 2 BR apts at $1500 to $2000 per.

I don't know -- having a decent public educational system is a good thing. City shouldn't only be reserved for 20-somethings and empty-nesters -- if anything, that's a return to normalcy. Unlike somewhere like San Francisco which has more dogs than kids.

True we need new schools (my biggest client is the SCA) and the problem is finding open space to build. The City is presently buying a lot of commercial real estate in Brooklyn and Queens and long tern leasing buildings in Manhattan for future projects.

The issue with NY City is that a lot of older real estate apartments are held by the banks, bad loans, defaults and failed projects-the banks don't want the liability for upkeep and there are presently at least 20 groups buying them off the rolls for the banks cost. They do minimal upkeep and intend to roll them over at first chance. I know because these are some of my clients.

Not saying they don't have the right do do this but just where is the working base of the city to live? LI is out of reach $$ wise as is a lot of Jersey and Westchester. I'm seeing more and more people with PA license plates where the bread winner works MtoF in the city and goes back to PA on the weekend. Great but realize since the commuter tax was outlawed, NYC ain't getting any real tax income from them. This is becomming a trend of late. you can get a house in Sailorsburg for $250K - that won't get you a decent Coop in the City. Not even in the Bronx.

spdrun · #36 02-03-2013, 01:52 PM

Considering I just looked at a fairly large 2 bedroom apt in Fort Greene in the mid-$350k range, what's the point in moving to Pennsyltucky for $250k? You'll be paying at least $800/mo for a halfway acceptable M-F crash pad plus commuting costs and aggravation. That's the equivalent of an additional $125k mortgage right there. When I see PA plates, I think "idiot" (or smart enough to register their car at their vacation house with lower insurance

)

Besides, I could buy a 3-bedroom house in Morristown, NJ in the mid-200 grand range, so wtf is the point in living in some dump in PA?

Pooka · #37 02-03-2013, 02:15 PM

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Originally Posted by spdrun

Speaks to the desirability of Tulsa, doesn't it now? I rented a 500 sf apartment in a *****ty area of Philly for $280/mo 10 years ago -- seems that, indexed for inflation, Tulsa is just as desirable to live in as ghetto-Philly

I would not call Tulsa the Garden of Eden, but it is far above inner city Philly. One of the things driving rent prices there is the fact that the market is very overbuilt to the south of downtown where prices tend to be lower.

Two other things come into play here and that is the quality of the highway system in Tulsa. It is somewhat of a crossroads so the highway system there is really very good and traffic is a breeze. Thing two is you can rent a nice, new, and cheap apartment in south Tulsa and be anywhere in town in less than 20 minutes. Therefore the rents in downtown have to be lower to compete.

Oklahoma City is much the same way. An interstate crossroads with just a little bit more traffic than Tulsa.

This is why you can buy a nice home on a few acres for less than $350,000. There is a lot of land there and the highways are good enough that you can get around without a lot of trouble.

spdrun · #38 02-03-2013, 03:10 PM

Thing is, I can be in a lot of places within Manhattan in 20 min walk. Or bike ride.

engatwork · #39 02-03-2013, 03:27 PM

How long does it take you to get to the nearest WalMart sp? 30 minutes for me

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Pooka · #40 02-04-2013, 09:36 PM

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Originally Posted by engatwork

How long does it take you to get to the nearest WalMart sp? 30 minutes for me

.

Five minutes for me. Seven minutes to downtown, five minutes to the Country Club.....

Unless I am just wanting to go somewhere I don't spend a lot of money on gas.

Skippy · #41 02-05-2013, 05:14 AM

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Originally Posted by engatwork

How long does it take you to get to the nearest WalMart sp? 30 minutes for me

.

Fifteen minutes walking. Less than five driving. But I seldom shop at Wally World. OTOH, I can walk to several grocery stores, several convenience stores, two sushi bars, an auto parts store, a bicycle shop, three Mexican restaurants, a Mickey D's, a Filipino restaurant, and two regular bars in less than five minutes.

barry12345 · #42 02-05-2013, 12:40 PM

The rational of living in overpopulated areas with the resultant high overall costs of doing so has little appeal to us. Many feel there is security in numbers I suppose. Or more diversity of jobs.

I grew up in the west end of Toronto many years ago and it was much more civilized than it is now and has been for a long time. I actually feel sorry for those friends I left behind but still see from time to time.

Wages in the boondocks have caught up or surpassed the mean averages in the larger cities. The possible hidden unknown stresses from living in them plus your disconect with the more fundemental awareness of nature has to exact a serious price.

This paying what the market will bear from endless manipulation to me is all too well entrenched in larger populated areas. The masses even if they are unaware of it are far more heavily regulated than more sparsly populated regions. They are still great places to visit. Just not really practical in comparison for the average guy.

Even one simple comparison tells a lot. We pay a little more than three thousand a year total property taxes on many properties. In Toronto it would be somewhere between 30-50K per year on the exact same places. We can easily afford to leave a small commercial building empty for periods of time is a typical result. There just is no pressure.

If retired as we are in Toronto it would take most our income I suspect just to get along.

Here we exist well for about a third of our current income in retirement. We want for nothing other than enough time perhaps to deal with many projects still. I think the excess of funds allows those almost continious projects plus the challenge of doing them. It has to be the challenges as the money they produce is not needed.

What is still even worse is a few of my friends that remained in the big city still have their noses to the grindstone for little more than basic survival. Endentured slavery almost from my perspective and they seem not to know any better.

My point being is there is another world out there in north america. City dwellers that are in the vast majority and not really well aware of it may not realise what they are missing. I particularily like reading what they consider a real estate investment. At the same time I fully realise that many cannot deal with the concept of living or how the economy functions in much more sparsley populated areas.

spdrun · #43 02-05-2013, 12:55 PM

Residential property taxes within NYC are actually generally LOWER than in NJ and the nearby counties of NY, with some exceptions. Given a year, I'll have my nose to the grindstone much less than the average American, since the properties that I have accepted offers on will be working for me. And no, most properties in the city aren't good investments, but there are plenty of good investments 15-30 miles out of town right now.

(Basically, will be paying exactly $0/mo for living/insurance expenses in NYC plus will have a small monthly investment income in addition to that from my business.) 9% cap rates in a world of 4% loans are a wonderful thing, don'cha agree?

As far as being connected to nature (or not), I can be out of the city and "in nature" within an hour or two. My situation really isn't ordinary as far as the average American's situation, but it works well enough for me.

Stoney · #44 02-05-2013, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun

Residential property taxes within NYC are actually generally LOWER than in NJ and the nearby counties of NY, with some exceptions. Given a year, I'll have my nose to the grindstone much less than the average American, since the properties that I have accepted offers on will be working for me. And no, most properties in the city aren't good investments, but there are plenty of good investments 15-30 miles out of town right now.

(Basically, will be paying exactly $0/mo for living/insurance expenses in NYC plus will have a small monthly investment income in addition to that from my business.) 9% cap rates in a world of 4% loans are a wonderful thing, don'cha agree?

As far as being connected to nature (or not), I can be out of the city and "in nature" within an hour or two. My situation really isn't ordinary as far as the average American's situation, but it works well enough for me.

The main issue is also salary. NY pays twice + what you get elsewhere.
NYC Property taxes are far lower than Nassau/Westchester/Jersey as the system is set up differently with taxes that are normally a part of suburban tax structure paid a different way.

spdrun · #45 02-05-2013, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoney

The main issue is also salary. NY pays twice + what you get elsewhere.
NYC Property taxes are far lower than Nassau/Westchester/Jersey as the system is set up differently with taxes that are normally a part of suburban tax structure paid a different way.

And there are parts of the 5 boroughs (read: Queens) that you'd be hard-pressed to differentiate from the Long Island suburbs.