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  #61  
Old 02-06-2013, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
Yes it is quite hypocritical that the same guy who said that enhanced interrogation was inhumane is so up for drone strikes. Of course they are very clean with no worry of blood on their hands. No witnesses, no trial, just death to those the king says to kill.
It's actually an interesting phenomenon which has garnered a lot of attention- the lack of "unclean" images and news in regard to war. I've done a lot of research myself on it, very interesting stuff (not related to Obama in any way but I thought I'd chip in), more an element of human nature taking place in press.

Play nice guys

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  #62  
Old 02-06-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tbomachines View Post
It's actually an interesting phenomenon which has garnered a lot of attention- the lack of "unclean" images and news in regard to war. I've done a lot of research myself on it, very interesting stuff (not related to Obama in any way but I thought I'd chip in), more an element of human nature taking place in press. Play nice guys
Tom, I don't understand. Please elaborate a bit.
  #63  
Old 02-06-2013, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tbomachines View Post
It's actually an interesting phenomenon which has garnered a lot of attention- the lack of "unclean" images and news in regard to war. I've done a lot of research myself on it, very interesting stuff (not related to Obama in any way but I thought I'd chip in), more an element of human nature taking place in press.

Play nice guys

The intellectual honesty is quite welcome here!
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  #64  
Old 02-06-2013, 03:00 PM
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Tom, I don't understand. Please elaborate a bit.
There are some realities that people have a hard time looking at - death, suffering being chief among them. Since audiences find that disturbing, a lot of press is "sanitized" for widespread consumption. Its done before the press even gets their hands on it though - it started in Vietnam when there was a PR nightmare over the gory images coming across television screens and newspapers. It certainly contributed to the domestic reaction of the war, and caused the U.S. to completely rethink press strategies going forward. In Grenada there was virtually no true press presence, everything came from the military press release office. In gulf war I, they had reporters over there, but nobody really got access to anything so again, not too many in-your-face images. In Gulf War II here, they switched to embedded journalism which has been hit-and-miss in that sense. Still a lack of access to images and info but there is a lot more of it. The images used to represent stories are often devoid of any blood, bodies, or any actual "reality" of the war. One of my colleagues in the grad program was a Major in the Army who ran the PR office for them out of Afghanistan, he always had some interesting stories about this stuff. Larry's "out of sight out of mind" thing just triggered the response even though its admittedly a bit off topic.

My thesis is loosely around this phenomenon in regard to the OBL killing.
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  #65  
Old 02-06-2013, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tbomachines View Post
There are some realities that people have a hard time looking at - death, suffering being chief among them. Since audiences find that disturbing, a lot of press is "sanitized" for widespread consumption. Its done before the press even gets their hands on it though - it started in Vietnam when there was a PR nightmare over the gory images coming across television screens and newspapers. It certainly contributed to the domestic reaction of the war, and caused the U.S. to completely rethink press strategies going forward. In Grenada there was virtually no true press presence, everything came from the military press release office. In gulf war I, they had reporters over there, but nobody really got access to anything so again, not too many in-your-face images. In Gulf War II here, they switched to embedded journalism which has been hit-and-miss in that sense. Still a lack of access to images and info but there is a lot more of it. The images used to represent stories are often devoid of any blood, bodies, or any actual "reality" of the war. One of my colleagues in the grad program was a Major in the Army who ran the PR office for them out of Afghanistan, he always had some interesting stories about this stuff. Larry's "out of sight out of mind" thing just triggered the response even though its admittedly a bit off topic.

My thesis is loosely around this phenomenon in regard to the OBL killing.
Can't disagree with you. Like a blurring of video games & war. Many of the "pilots" of dones are sitting right here in the US while at the "controls."

I suppose the "In your living room" attitude of coverage ( such as it was) during VN days may have been related to some degree to the fact that we had a draft then. Today, we don't and 98% of most folks don't really GAS. So, why would any govt. want to expose them to the grim reality of war?
Out of sight and out of mind. Let me wage my war.
  #66  
Old 02-06-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dynalow View Post
Can't disagree with you. Like a blurring of video games & war. Many of the "pilots" of dones are sitting right here in the US while at the "controls."

I suppose the "In your living room" attitude of coverage ( such as it was) during VN days may have been related to some degree to the fact that we had a draft then. Today, we don't and 98% of most folks don't really GAS. So, why would any govt. want to expose them to the grim reality of war?
Out of sight and out of mind. Let me wage my war.
That, and it was really the first war where live television was used. The U.S. was completely caught off guard and didn't have any policies in place to regulate the coverage, nor any review process prior to the transmission of them onto the news.

Sanitizing the coverage is a win-win for media and government who is running an unpopular war. Media audiences aren't going to be subjected to uncomfortable images (and therefore they'll be inclined to keep watching...if they turn it off its not because of that), and the government can continue to offer whatever narrative they want since its a blurred reality. There are instances where the lack of visuality makes people very uncomfortable and distrustful, such as the case of OBL when there were no images released of the raid or his body.
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  #67  
Old 02-06-2013, 04:36 PM
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Oh, I believe both sides of the aisle realized there was no footage (And we do assume it exists, or what is Obama staring at in that momentous photo of them all in that situation room) aired of OBL's death. Now, the Dems, mostly I believe, just passed it off because, Look at this guy? He just TOOK OUT Osama Bin Laden, something that Bush had already somehow declared Mission Accomplished on in somehow stopping OBL's reign of terror, yet, surprise, Mission not Accomplished. The reps then wanted to say it was fake, it was a hoax, etc. etc. That got quiet real quick when the possibility of showing the footage on national TV would make them look worse than fools.

To be honest, I am more of a pacifist, as I disagree with alot of the fighting going on in the world (MOSTLY because of the reasons for them and the seemingly senseless amounts of violence) but I am not entirely a pacifist. I feel that when a target that has had so much negative influence on our country, on the WORLD, has been located, they need to be taken out or captured with as little violence and bloodshed as possible. Going in with a drone, or going in with a helicopter and a small team to take down a whole compound is far more preferred than invading a WHOLE COUNTRY, toppling a "regime" that existed there, turning over every stone, and finding out the man you said was there, the weapons you said were there (that post facto the intelligence reports ALSO said you KNEW they were NOT there) was not there at all, all while trying to take out that single man? Thousands upon Thousands of deaths. Yes, you need to keep THAT grim reality out of the news because then EVERYONE realizes, including the ones who were on your side supporting you throughout it all, how inhumane that all really was and is.

It may seem less humane to some idiots out there that you take out a confirmed target with a drone strike and move on, but I feel given the surgical precision, it's better than deploy numerous aircraft to carpet bomb a city just to take out a single target. There's less civilian death, less personnel death, less property damage, less collateral damage overall.

As for the media, I believe it needs to be aired, publicly, and widely, that YES! This drone just ENDED a human life. That YES! this one man had caused mass graves and hundreds of other deaths. All of it need be shown so people are NOT desensitized or sanitized to the facts of the world. Crime, once committed, war once it is waged, shall not be omitted from the media. There needs to be transparency to the people. Maybe once everyone starts to realize that all the nasty bits gov't and regimes and organizations an everything else wants to hide to make themselves seem the good guys, then less senseless violence and bloodshed will occur.
  #68  
Old 02-06-2013, 06:03 PM
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Wow, there is not a single shred of intelligence in what you said. As parody or not. I can just picture you sitting in front of your computer wearing a white sheet and pointy hat, now, just waiting to go start a bonfire in someone's front yard or something. Wow..... Just... wow.

Also, of all the "whitey" presidents, alot of them missed this one singular deadline, too.
Wrackin' the infracts like a ship raising the jolly roger.
  #69  
Old 02-06-2013, 06:14 PM
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Wrackin' the infracts like a ship raising the jolly roger.


You're killin' me Bot! how do you come up with this stuff?

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  #70  
Old 02-06-2013, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bio-Chem-Philo View Post
Wow, there is not a single shred of intelligence in what you said. As parody or not. I can just picture you sitting in front of your computer wearing a white sheet and pointy hat, now, just waiting to go start a bonfire in someone's front yard or something. Wow..... Just... wow.

Also, of all the "whitey" presidents, alot of them missed this one singular deadline, too.
Tell me what you're wearing. What are you doing with your hand? Tell me how that feels. Now do it faster and harder. Now using your dirty filty words tell your Daddy how much you deserve it. And repeat as necessary.

Then go clean yourself up and get back to applying yourself to something productive.
  #71  
Old 02-06-2013, 06:50 PM
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Getting popcorn. Back in a few......
  #72  
Old 02-06-2013, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Getting popcorn. Back in a few......
Will you pop a little extra for me?
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  #73  
Old 02-06-2013, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bio-Chem-Philo View Post
Oh, I believe both sides of the aisle realized there was no footage (And we do assume it exists, or what is Obama staring at in that momentous photo of them all in that situation room) aired of OBL's death. Now, the Dems, mostly I believe, just passed it off because, Look at this guy? He just TOOK OUT Osama Bin Laden, something that Bush had already somehow declared Mission Accomplished on in somehow stopping OBL's reign of terror, yet, surprise, Mission not Accomplished. The reps then wanted to say it was fake, it was a hoax, etc. etc. That got quiet real quick when the possibility of showing the footage on national TV would make them look worse than fools.

To be honest, I am more of a pacifist, as I disagree with alot of the fighting going on in the world (MOSTLY because of the reasons for them and the seemingly senseless amounts of violence) but I am not entirely a pacifist. I feel that when a target that has had so much negative influence on our country, on the WORLD, has been located, they need to be taken out or captured with as little violence and bloodshed as possible. Going in with a drone, or going in with a helicopter and a small team to take down a whole compound is far more preferred than invading a WHOLE COUNTRY, toppling a "regime" that existed there, turning over every stone, and finding out the man you said was there, the weapons you said were there (that post facto the intelligence reports ALSO said you KNEW they were NOT there) was not there at all, all while trying to take out that single man? Thousands upon Thousands of deaths. Yes, you need to keep THAT grim reality out of the news because then EVERYONE realizes, including the ones who were on your side supporting you throughout it all, how inhumane that all really was and is.

It may seem less humane to some idiots out there that you take out a confirmed target with a drone strike and move on, but I feel given the surgical precision, it's better than deploy numerous aircraft to carpet bomb a city just to take out a single target. There's less civilian death, less personnel death, less property damage, less collateral damage overall.

As for the media, I believe it needs to be aired, publicly, and widely, that YES! This drone just ENDED a human life. That YES! this one man had caused mass graves and hundreds of other deaths. All of it need be shown so people are NOT desensitized or sanitized to the facts of the world. Crime, once committed, war once it is waged, shall not be omitted from the media. There needs to be transparency to the people. Maybe once everyone starts to realize that all the nasty bits gov't and regimes and organizations an everything else wants to hide to make themselves seem the good guys, then less senseless violence and bloodshed will occur.
Footage, or at least photographic evidence does exist. Allegedly, there were pictures taken at several points, at the compound and on the ship of OBL's body. I can't find the source atm since I'm on my phone. The government made a conscious decision not to release photographs and to confiscate all the known sources of them, to conspiracy theorists' delight.
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  #74  
Old 02-06-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bio-Chem-Philo View Post
I like your signature. "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers." Look at what the republicans have done.

But I digress, to respond to you directly, if anyone with perhaps more than 25% vision wanted to really look at the picture and see who was doing what, you could. Obama hasn't tried to put into place bills that drastically restrict freedom of American Citizens, nor tried to do it over night with no one reading the bill just a "HERE! WAKE UP! SIGN THIS! G'night, go back to sleep, this was Allll a baaaad dream." And SURPRISE!

If you or anyone brings up gun control, I will scream because thats what liberals do when confronted with facts or reality. Obama hasn't done a single thing to really restrict ANYTHING about gun control, PLUS! What he could TRY to do is make the BATFE ACTUALLY do its job, buuuuutt, the republicans are blocking that to.

I guess you don't get radio or television reception in your moms basement! I'm sure that someone from your age group and (lack of) education level will believe what you say, so you will get your stipend from the obama for god foundation, but how are you going to pay for your own health insurance when you get the boot from mom at age 26? Can you say "useful idiot"?
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  #75  
Old 02-06-2013, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Woody Worker View Post
Tell me what you're wearing. What are you doing with your hand? Tell me how that feels. Now do it faster and harder. Now using your dirty filty words tell your Daddy how much you deserve it. And repeat as necessary.

Then go clean yourself up and get back to applying yourself to something productive.

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