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  #31  
Old 02-06-2013, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
...Morality is going to hell...
Hmmm - if I take that comment literally I could be rather sarcastic!

But how do you explain this? Recently the English press were banging on about a drop in crime since the 1990s - despite economic recessions where it is expected to get worse

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article3572111.ece

The report I saw on BBC news reckoned that it could be due to several factors - the rise of internet social media was given as one reason. Perhaps ambivalence is ruling the day => that links nicely back to poor moral standards. Go facebook!

Although the BBC didn't report this I reckon the fall in crime is because people are just too fat to thieve / rape / murder / etc these days - lethargy has set in.

Of the seven deadly sins I always thought that Greed would get us in the end - but it seems to me to be that Gluttony and Sloth are the new favourites.

So long as we can keep on digging "wealth" out of the ground we can support the culture of excess and watch the greed of the few battle it out with the sloth and the gluttony of the masses.

Popcorn anyone?

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  #32  
Old 02-06-2013, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
This is very sad to read, but unfortunately it does not surprise me.

From where I sit, it is the societal decadence that has been going on for many years. Morality is going to hell. Drug usage has drastically increased. More children are raised by a single parent.

I really don't understand how we could expect to see anything different. A changing society produces a change in people within the society.
I'm pretty sure your dad said the same about your generation as did your grandpa prior to him.
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  #33  
Old 02-06-2013, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jorn View Post
I'm pretty sure your dad said the same about your generation as did your grandpa prior to him.
Hey! Get the racket off my lawn, damn kids!
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Last edited by tbomachines; 02-06-2013 at 03:30 PM. Reason: wrong smiley (very important)
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  #34  
Old 02-06-2013, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
Hmmm - if I take that comment literally I could be rather sarcastic!

But how do you explain this? Recently the English press were banging on about a drop in crime since the 1990s - despite economic recessions where it is expected to get worse

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article3572111.ece

The report I saw on BBC news reckoned that it could be due to several factors - the rise of internet social media was given as one reason. Perhaps ambivalence is ruling the day => that links nicely back to poor moral standards. Go facebook!

Although the BBC didn't report this I reckon the fall in crime is because people are just too fat to thieve / rape / murder / etc these days - lethargy has set in.

Of the seven deadly sins I always thought that Greed would get us in the end - but it seems to me to be that Gluttony and Sloth are the new favourites.

So long as we can keep on digging "wealth" out of the ground we can support the culture of excess and watch the greed of the few battle it out with the sloth and the gluttony of the masses.

Popcorn anyone?
In the US crime is at lowest point since the mid sixties and in some major cities it has never been so low as the fifties.

Legalized abortion, video games, social media, better education; no one really knows why.
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  #35  
Old 02-06-2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jorn View Post
I'm pretty sure your dad said the same about your generation as did your grandpa prior to him.

Yes, and the sad part is, all three of us have been proven correct.
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  #36  
Old 02-06-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
Yes, and the sad part is, all three of us have been proven correct.
So will the generation you're criticizing when it's their turn to criticize the next generation. In the mean time crime is at the lowest point since the sixties...
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  #37  
Old 02-06-2013, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Jorn View Post
So will the generation you're criticizing when it's their turn to criticize the next generation. In the mean time crime is at the lowest point since the sixties...

Is crime rate the only parameter that applies to societal decadence? Do things like abortion rate, drug use percentage, single parent home number, spousal abuse, and on and on......
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  #38  
Old 02-06-2013, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Jorn View Post
So will the generation you're criticizing when it's their turn to criticize the next generation. In the mean time crime is at the lowest point since the sixties...
Its completely apples and oranges. Nobody had the internet in the 60s, so they could stay sequestered away from outside opinions, ridiculous amounts of information, etc. if they wished (or rather, their parents wished). The 60s was prior to drug use being outlawed for the most part, before meth and crack swept across america, before condoms were commonplace, etc. While the baby boomers have a lot of say, being a major crowd, they're getting old and less directly relevant in terms of raising the next generation. All the "kids these days" rant does is show increasing age and inability to adapt.
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  #39  
Old 02-06-2013, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
It seems to me that in general, US society seems to be producing more unstable or anti-social people. When I began teaching at the college level 25 years or so ago, it was pretty rare to encounter a student who, as a result of fundamental anti-social attitudes, required a teacher to seek help from administration. Now, it is not unusual. In fact, just this week, I learned of a long time colleague who simply was forced to quit due to the stress caused by inadequately socialized students. I don't know how to get any objective measure of this, apart from violent incidents on the part of such people, but I think behind those well-publicized incidents is a broader problem.
The last 25 years have been marked by arguably the greatest level of influence and advancement of the Progressive Utopian Ideal in human history and no one should be suprised at this result.

Children who began being indoctrinated in the sixties began implimenting these ideals as adults in the eighties and now the first generation of born and bred progressive offspring have been coming of age and into their own. The exploding manifestation of statism was bound to result in a corresponding reduction in the societal cultivation of individual responsibility. The state seizes and dictates the development of humans ever earlier and maintains that control over their development ever longer, children enter pre-school; at 2 and 3 years old and are still in school and on their parents healthcare plans until 26. Twenty plus years of centrally planned indoctrination and coercive behavior modification for the spawn of acquiescent political correctness infected breeder couples who have been inculcated and convinced that their own personal self actualization is the apotheosis of the human condition and the individual human development of their spawn is better left to the village of experts licensed, certified, approved and directed by the centralized planning authority.

Narcissism and self gratification have become the coin of the realm, but only to the extent that it fits withing the parameters delineated by state central planners so as to not threaten the imposed order.

Anti-social, fundamental anti-social attitudes, inadaquately socialized are all euphemisms straight out of Huxley's "Brave New World", they are words who's original meanings have been corrupted, perverted, and prostituted to mean not sufficiently politically correct, not sufficiently compliant to authority, not sufficiently subjugated to state authority and influence.

Progressivism has created this monster and the way they will attemp to deal with it will not be pretty, totalitarian ideologies have a single tool to deal with dissent and non-conformity and that is ultimately the elimination of the offending unit.

Thanks "progressives"!
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  #40  
Old 02-06-2013, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tbomachines View Post
Its completely apples and oranges. Nobody had the internet in the 60s, so they could stay sequestered away from outside opinions, ridiculous amounts of information, etc. if they wished (or rather, their parents wished). The 60s was prior to drug use being outlawed for the most part, before meth and crack swept across america, before condoms were commonplace, etc. While the baby boomers have a lot of say, being a major crowd, they're getting old and less directly relevant in terms of raising the next generation. All the "kids these days" rant does is show increasing age and inability to adapt.

For my part, I would change that to UNWILLINGNESS. I have no desire whatsoever to lower my personal standards and no one should.
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  #41  
Old 02-06-2013, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
For my part, I would change that to UNWILLINGNESS. I have no desire whatsoever to lower my personal standards and no one should.
Fair enough, but its very possible to adapt while not "lowering personal standards"
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  #42  
Old 02-06-2013, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Woody Worker View Post
The last 25 years have been marked by arguably the greatest level of influence and advancement of the Progressive Utopian Ideal in human history and no one should be suprised at this result.

Children who began being indoctrinated in the sixties began implimenting these ideals as adults in the eighties and now the first generation of born and bred progressive offspring have been coming of age and into their own. The exploding manifestation of statism was bound to result in a corresponding reduction in the societal cultivation of individual responsibility. The state seizes and dictates the development of humans ever earlier and maintains that control over their development ever longer, children enter pre-school; at 2 and 3 years old and are still in school and on their parents healthcare plans until 26. Twenty plus years of centrally planned indoctrination and coercive behavior modification for the spawn of acquiescent political correctness infected breeder couples who have been inculcated and convinced that their own personal self actualization is the apotheosis of the human condition and the individual human development of their spawn is better left to the village of experts licensed, certified, approved and directed by the centralized planning authority.

Narcissism and self gratification have become the coin of the realm, but only to the extent that it fits withing the parameters delineated by state central planners so as to not threaten the imposed order.

Anti-social, fundamental anti-social attitudes, inadaquately socialized are all euphemisms straight out of Huxley's "Brave New World", they are words who's original meanings have been corrupted, perverted, and prostituted to mean not sufficiently politically correct, not sufficiently compliant to authority, not sufficiently subjugated to state authority and influence.

Progressivism has created this monster and the way they will attemp to deal with it will not be pretty, totalitarian ideologies have a single tool to deal with dissent and non-conformity and that is ultimately the elimination of the offending unit.

Thanks "progressives"!
What world have you been living in? Since the late 1970's hard core neo-liberal social policies and economic practices have come to dominate the USA and spread around the globe. The last time I checked, self-actualization as a social ideal had been virtually subsumed under the economic interests of multi-national corporations.
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  #43  
Old 02-06-2013, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody Worker View Post
The last 25 years have been marked by arguably the greatest level of influence and advancement of the Progressive Utopian Ideal in human history and no one should be suprised at this result.

Children who began being indoctrinated in the sixties began implimenting these ideals as adults in the eighties and now the first generation of born and bred progressive offspring have been coming of age and into their own. The exploding manifestation of statism was bound to result in a corresponding reduction in the societal cultivation of individual responsibility. The state seizes and dictates the development of humans ever earlier and maintains that control over their development ever longer, children enter pre-school; at 2 and 3 years old and are still in school and on their parents healthcare plans until 26. Twenty plus years of centrally planned indoctrination and coercive behavior modification for the spawn of acquiescent political correctness infected breeder couples who have been inculcated and convinced that their own personal self actualization is the apotheosis of the human condition and the individual human development of their spawn is better left to the village of experts licensed, certified, approved and directed by the centralized planning authority.

Narcissism and self gratification have become the coin of the realm, but only to the extent that it fits withing the parameters delineated by state central planners so as to not threaten the imposed order.

Anti-social, fundamental anti-social attitudes, inadaquately socialized are all euphemisms straight out of Huxley's "Brave New World", they are words who's original meanings have been corrupted, perverted, and prostituted to mean not sufficiently politically correct, not sufficiently compliant to authority, not sufficiently subjugated to state authority and influence.

Progressivism has created this monster and the way they will attemp to deal with it will not be pretty, totalitarian ideologies have a single tool to deal with dissent and non-conformity and that is ultimately the elimination of the offending unit.

Thanks "progressives"!


Sounds EXACTLY like the kind of thing THIS guy would say:

Notorious BIG Vs. Hitler - YouTube
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  #44  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
What world have you been living in? Since the late 1970's hard core neo-liberal social policies and economic practices have come to dominate the USA and spread around the globe. The last time I checked, self-actualization as a social ideal had been virtually subsumed under the economic interests of multi-national corporations.
My opinions where in regard to the strategic advancement of progressive ideals and ideological intent, perhaps it could have been better articulated.

Your opinions seem to focus more on some objection to the tactical implimentation of policies and practices rather than the ultimate effect of such tactical implimrentation.

It appeared that the conversation was in regard to the state of society here in the US, I would argue that each of the commonly accepted and understood four goals of progressivism to protect social welfare, promote moral improvement, create economic reform, and foster efficiency have been advanced in this society since the 60's and have over that time period for the most part advancement has accelerated. The unintended consequences which are the result of the implimentaion of theoretical progressivism are being manifested and will continue to incrimentally expand their manifestation as the progressive ideology advances in the direction of its goals.

You might disagree with the methodology and implimentation (probably not fast enough, directly impactful enough, or of sufficient irreversability to suit your liking I'd suspect) but it would difficult to understand if your arguement is that over that time period each of the four goals of progressivism have not advanced from where they where at the start of that period of time.
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  #45  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Woody Worker View Post
My opinions where in regard to the strategic advancement of progressive ideals and ideological intent, perhaps it could have been better articulated.

Your opinions seem to focus more on some objection to the tactical implimentation of policies and practices rather than the ultimate effect of such tactical implimrentation.

It appeared that the conversation was in regard to the state of society here in the US, I would argue that each of the commonly accepted and understood four goals of progressivism to protect social welfare, promote moral improvement, create economic reform, and foster efficiency have been advanced in this society since the 60's and have over that time period for the most part advancement has accelerated. The unintended consequences which are the result of the implimentaion of theoretical progressivism are being manifested and will continue to incrimentally expand their manifestation as the progressive ideology advances in the direction of its goals.

You might disagree with the methodology and implimentation (probably not fast enough, directly impactful enough, or of sufficient irreversability to suit your liking I'd suspect) but it would difficult to understand if your arguement is that over that time period each of the four goals of progressivism have not advanced from where they where at the start of that period of time.
Huh? I'm not a Progressive. But that aside, the suggestion that social welfare has been improving since Reagan set out to gut the welfare system, or that moral improvement has been the aim of neo-liberal economic policies which treat workers as objects to be exploited and thrown away when inconvenienced, or that economic reform (apart from concentrating wealth in fewer and fewer hands) has taken place over the last 30 years is nonsense. Efficiency, if measured by increased productive capacity while transferring wealth at a faster pace to the upper classes, has been improved over the last 30 or 40 years.

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