In all the yelling and hoarding - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

elchivito · #1 02-01-2013, 11:36 AM

I've searched for something that expresses my ambivalence about the gun issue. There are precious few reasonable voices out there saying anything. This an extremely good read.

I hunkered down and started to reflect. To certain fellow gun owners whom I was ashamed to regard as fellow anythings, my belief that the public has a right to collective self-defense from those who abuse their individual rights qualified me as traitor and a weakling. To certain purists among the unarmed, my guns marked me as unwholesome, perhaps a "nut job." A girlfriend had called me this name once, partly in jest, after coming across some bullets in my desk (a few. 22 shells, just pocket litter to me and no more ominous than thumb tacks). I shouldn't have, but I bristled. This troubled her slightly. Which troubled me.

You all know how that goes, that spiral of defensiveness when someone questions something you take for granted. Or maybe you don't, since you've never owned a gun.

Let's go shooting together. It might help us talk.

What Gun Owners Really Want | New Republic

Air&Road · #2 02-01-2013, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

I've searched for something that expresses my ambivalence about the gun issue. There are precious few reasonable voices out there saying anything. This an extremely good read.

I hunkered down and started to reflect. To certain fellow gun owners whom I was ashamed to regard as fellow anythings, my belief that the public has a right to collective self-defense from those who abuse their individual rights qualified me as traitor and a weakling. To certain purists among the unarmed, my guns marked me as unwholesome, perhaps a "nut job." A girlfriend had called me this name once, partly in jest, after coming across some bullets in my desk (a few. 22 shells, just pocket litter to me and no more ominous than thumb tacks). I shouldn't have, but I bristled. This troubled her slightly. Which troubled me.

You all know how that goes, that spiral of defensiveness when someone questions something you take for granted. Or maybe you don't, since you've never owned a gun.

Let's go shooting together. It might help us talk.

What Gun Owners Really Want | New Republic

When I started taking my old truck apart to restore it, it would have REALLY freaked this guys girlfriend out. In the glove box and in a behind the seat storage rack, I found eonough shotgun shells, rifle ammo and .22 long rifles to sustain a pretty extensive battle.

pj67coll · #3 02-01-2013, 12:32 PM

Interesting article, thanks for the link. I don't agree with his final conclusion but it was well written and makes one ponder the psychology of it all.

Regarding the ammo shortage. I've been to four places regularly over the last few weeks. Cabelas, two Big 5's and a small gun shop and been unable to find a single 22LR round in any of them. I picked up the last 200 22Shorts that were in Big5. At least I can use them in my bolt actions and save the LR's for my pistol.

Really dammed aggravating all this stupidity.

- Peter.

Air&Road · #4 02-01-2013, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Interesting article, thanks for the link. I don't agree with his final conclusion but it was well written and makes one ponder the psychology of it all.

Regarding the ammo shortage. I've been to four places regularly over the last few weeks. Cabelas, two Big 5's and a small gun shop and been unable to find a single 22LR round in any of them. I picked up the last 200 22Shorts that were in Big5. At least I can use them in my bolt actions and save the LR's for my pistol.

Really dammed aggravating all this stupidity.

- Peter.

pj,

I haven't tried to buy any ammo in awhile. Is your experience due to these stores being bought out, or because they stopped selling it?

spdrun · #5 02-01-2013, 01:17 PM

It's not the guns, it's the attitude. Kind of like you can collect cars without driving like a Bostonite.

jplinville · #6 02-01-2013, 01:19 PM

The article was well written by someone who is obviously college educated. However, his line of thought on allowing a ban for certain black and scary weapons is flawed.

Just like there are those that don't trust the conservatives to "improve" the welfare programs that are helping increase spending in the US, I don't trust the liberals to stop at just the black scary looking weapons. It's truly a matter of trust, and the populace as a whole doesn't trust the government enough to do the "right thing", neither did the Founding Fathers...it's the reason we have the ability to elect someone else.

There's more than enough recent written history that shows that our government cannot be trusted with the control of firearms...just look at how the BATFE handled Fast and Furious, and how the FBI handled Ruby Ridge.

The author was correct in claiming that it was about control...but not of the firearms in question, it's about control of the people who own them.

One great concern I have is those that have invested time and money over the years
to create the perfect match rifle based on the AR platform. Some of those guns can go in the plus $10k range. With the stroke of a pen, those trophy rifles could become illegal to own, and collectively millions of dollars of investments would be worth nothing.

Personally, I have no use for any of the 157 firearms the Senator from Cali wants to ban...I don't own any, nor do I have a desire to. That doesn't mean that I'm willing to allow the government to tell me I'm not allowed to own one.

History has shown us what happens to a country when it's leaders disarm the populace...many, many people die. Personally, I'd rather risk a small number of the population to die off and chalk it up to the cost of a flawed societal function than to allow the risk of millions of people dying, and chalking it up to the cost of a tyrannical government.

I'm sure many will want to flame me for that last paragraph...I'm just speaking the truth of how I see things.

jplinville · #7 02-01-2013, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Interesting article, thanks for the link. I don't agree with his final conclusion but it was well written and makes one ponder the psychology of it all.

Regarding the ammo shortage. I've been to four places regularly over the last few weeks. Cabelas, two Big 5's and a small gun shop and been unable to find a single 22LR round in any of them. I picked up the last 200 22Shorts that were in Big5. At least I can use them in my bolt actions and save the LR's for my pistol.

Really dammed aggravating all this stupidity.

- Peter.

You should be able to have a better chance at buying .22lr from Walmart now...they've put a 3 box limit on ammo, so that everyone has a chance to buy it.

elchivito · #8 02-01-2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Interesting article, thanks for the link. I don't agree with his final conclusion but it was well written and makes one ponder the psychology of it all.

Regarding the ammo shortage. I've been to four places regularly over the last few weeks. Cabelas, two Big 5's and a small gun shop and been unable to find a single 22LR round in any of them. I picked up the last 200 22Shorts that were in Big5. At least I can use them in my bolt actions and save the LR's for my pistol.

Really dammed aggravating all this stupidity.

- Peter.

I don't necessarily agree with his conclusion either, but appreciated the article none the less. It seems to me that what the anti gun folks don't get is that firearms have been a part of our culture since the Mayflower landed and that is never going to change. What the pro gun folks fail to acknowledge is that weapons have changed, their place in the society has changed and that the concept of violence has dramatically changed.

Regarding ammo, it's still unobtanium in Arizona as far as I can tell. The guy I buy cast lead bullets from in Phoenix is a month behind in orders. My last order cleared his paypal on the 15th of Jan. and in an email today he told me he's hoping to be down to my level of his list by the middle of Feb. Wife and I went to Prescott on Wednesday to buy provisions so I called ahead everywhere to see if I could find powder. I finally located one pound at CAL-Ranch and had the guy put my name on it. While I was at the counter there there was an older fellow, older than me by a sight anyhow, completing the purchase of a .22LR handgun of some sort. After the sale was rung and the kid asked him if he needed anything else he said well I guess I better buy some ammo for it. The kid said we've been out of .22 for weeks and don't know when we'll get any. You mean I just bought a gun I can't get ammo for? The old guy said. Surely there must be .22 somewhere. Don't count on it I told him. I bought my powder and when I was done he was still standing there, I guess thinking about whether to return the pistol as they'd told him if he leaves the store with it they can't take it back. The fellow at my WalMart told me "yeah, we're limiting sales on ammo, assuming we can get some ammo to put limits on."

The Stupid. It burns!!

Botnst · #9 02-01-2013, 01:44 PM

I'd like to be left alone.

pj67coll · #10 02-01-2013, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

pj,

I haven't tried to buy any ammo in awhile. Is your experience due to these stores being bought out, or because they stopped selling it?

There's plenty of ammo out there for the less popular calibers. But 22LR, 223, 9mm etc. Forget it. They sell out as soon as it hits the shelves.

- Peter.

elchivito · #11 02-01-2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

There's plenty of ammo out there for the less popular calibers. But 22LR, 223, 9mm etc. Forget it. They sell out as soon as it hits the shelves.

- Peter.

My local WM is overstocked on .270 and 17HMR

pj67coll · #12 02-01-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

You should be able to have a better chance at buying .22lr from Walmart now...they've put a 3 box limit on ammo, so that everyone has a chance to buy it.

I should have mentioned Walmart as one of the places I'd been scoping out. Yes, a nice idea to limit it to 3 boxes per customer but they are still empty so no use there.

I actually just swung by Cabelas again at lunch and picked up a box of 7,62 Nagant for my Russian revolver. They have plenty of that. They had 22CB Shorts so I picked up a couple of hundred of them. At least I can used them in my bolt action rifles and so keep my 750 or so LR rounds for my pistol that needs them.

- Peter.

pj67coll · #13 02-01-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

My local WM is overstocked on .270 and 17HMR

Oh yeah. Everybody seems to have supplies of 17HMR. I guess it's nowhere near as popular as 22LR.

- Peter.

elchivito · #14 02-01-2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Oh yeah. Everybody seems to have supplies of 17HMR. I guess it's nowhere near as popular as 22LR.

- Peter.

Nice round too, but pricey.

retmil46 · #15 02-01-2013, 02:28 PM

Thank gawd for revolvers. My grandfather's old High Standard 9 shot will eat anything .22, from shorts to LR.

Thankfully, I'd already picked up extra 9 mm, .40, and 30/30 last summer when getting ready for dove season, and discovered during my inventory I was low on both.

Also thankfully, .45/70 is apparently one of the less popular rifle calibers.