Interesting article on the cost of healthcare... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #16 02-21-2013, 03:39 PM

The doctor isn't in charge of our care now. For-profit insurance companies are.

SwampYankee · #17 02-21-2013, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

US healthcare costs are far higher than those of industrialized countries with socialized medicine. Canada is a good example but I believe all European countries have lower costs than the USA. I'd like to see some evidence that for-profit medicine is cheaper than socialized medicine.

Is socialized medicine going to be any cheaper than for-profit? I'm guessing that for half of us, there won't be any decrease in out of pocket expense. The difference would be we'd pay the govt. via payroll deduction in the form of taxes instead of a payroll deduction to the insurance company which pays the hospital. Folks with pre-existing conditions, who encounter a major medical situation or fall below income levels would likely see a savings.

My green card carrying Canadian truckdriver and his brothers and sisters (who also live and work in the U.S.) all complain about the taxes in Canada and the quality of healthcare there. Their elderly mother still lives there so they each take turns with her appointments.

Is it a case of the "grass is always greener on the other side"?

greazzer · #18 02-21-2013, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

Having seen through my father's experiences with the VA...we're screwed. Being nothing but a number is not the way to the best care. Your doctor will no longer be in charge of your care, he'll be busy herding cattle through the gates, so to speak.

You have grossly under stated the horrible health care that the VA provides to our Veterans. My guess is that the VA system is the "roll model" for Obamacare, and it should be called Obamacare since this is the flagship of his administration. I highly doubt the administration and certain media outlets will be able to blame bush for Obamacare. There is at least one major scandal every other month at DORN VA hospital in Columbia, S.C., and DORN is considered one of the better VA medical centers. My guess is that the VA killed far more former troops (now called veterans) than the enemy ever dreamed of. And by scandal, not talking about what secretary is getting bonk'd by this or that high level administrator. I have a buddy who works there and every month or two the VA is caught either killing or seriously injuring a lot of veterans since healthcare is "policy" and all vet's get this or that treatment. Sad thing is that the vets really cannot sue the doctors or the VA. Some of the "policies" included re-using scopes for those vets over 50, and about 500 were identified as getting HIV and Hep C. My guess something that goes up one's rectum should be completely cleaned or not reused. Or, the "experimental" cancer treatments without any real paper trail relative to waivers and releases permitting the experimentation vs just giving the approved care with a high success rate. Another buddy who is a veteran was told his wait to see an "expert" regarding serious nerve damage to the neck and back area was "only" 90 days. Then again, the doctor he will most likely see is a Track 3 doctor who can barely speak let alone understand English. I think if this is the overall outcome or final product for Obamacare, then the voting majority deserves what it receives.

hill · #19 02-21-2013, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

The doctor isn't in charge of our care now. For-profit insurance companies are.

I worked IT for a large INS company. Their "adjusters" got bonuses based on their "PERFORMANCE"

Just remember the company motto , deny, deny, deny till they lose their jobs or die.

Little did I know later with the M.S. how hard you have to fight to get some services. So if you can keep a extra 20k around for legal services. The INS companies hate people that cost them money for decades.

kerry · #20 02-21-2013, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

Is socialized medicine going to be any cheaper than for-profit? I'm guessing that for half of us, there won't be any decrease in out of pocket expense. The difference would be we'd pay the govt. via payroll deduction in the form of taxes instead of a payroll deduction to the insurance company which pays the hospital. Folks with pre-existing conditions, who encounter a major medical situation or fall below income levels would likely see a savings.

My green card carrying Canadian truckdriver and his brothers and sisters (who also live and work in the U.S.) all complain about the taxes in Canada and the quality of healthcare there. Their elderly mother still lives there so they each take turns with her appointments.

Is it a case of the "grass is always greener on the other side"?

I don't know if socialized medicine will be cheaper in the USA. I know that studies have shown that medical costs in countries with socialized medicine are lower. I haven't heard complaints about quality of care in Canada. What I have heard and what I have experienced is contrary. My wife had an emergency in Canada a couple of years ago and had to visit an emergency room in a hospital. Care was first rate. My daughter had to take her roommate to the ER in Vancouver last week and was thoroughly impressed with the care she got for $68 per month. I have a number of in-laws in Canada and never had a complaint about health care. Taxes are higher there I think. So are salaries though in some professions. My SIL makes more than double what my wife earned as a K-12 teacher.

davidmash · #21 02-21-2013, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

I don't know if socialized medicine will be cheaper in the USA. I know that studies have shown that medical costs in countries with socialized medicine are lower. I haven't heard complaints about quality of care in Canada. What I have heard and what I have experienced is contrary. My wife had an emergency in Canada a couple of years ago and had to visit an emergency room in a hospital. Care was first rate. My daughter had to take her roommate to the ER in Vancouver last week and was thoroughly impressed with the care she got for $68 per month. I have a number of in-laws in Canada and never had a complaint about health care. Taxes are higher there I think. So are salaries though in some professions. My SIL makes more than double what my wife earned as a K-12 teacher.

Same for my mother in Germany. Eleven days in the hospital, surgery, PT, IV drugs.. you name it. All top notch. The bill was under $5k.

kerry · #22 02-21-2013, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill

I worked IT for a large INS company. Their "adjusters" got bonuses based on their "PERFORMANCE"

Just remember the company motto , deny, deny, deny till they lose their jobs or die.

Little did I know later with the M.S. how hard you have to fight to get some services. So if you can keep a extra 20k around for legal services. The INS companies hate people that cost them money for decades.

Don't I know it. When I turned 50, I got an automated phone call from my PPO telling me to get a colonoscopy. Went to my PCP who scheduled the colonoscopy. Had it done. Insurance denied payment. Why--because it was done in a building labeled 'surgery center' and not in a 'doctor's office' even though it was the building where the doctor had his office. I appealed since my policy clearly says is covers pre-cancer screenings and they told me to get it done. Denied. A year later, State senator passed a bill simply stating that insurance companies had to pay for colonoscopies. I'm assuming he had the same insurance company as me and they did the same thing to him.
I'm sure there are thousands of stories like this and someone is driving around in a BMW on the basis of denied colonoscopy payments.

greazzer · #23 02-21-2013, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Don't I know it. When I turned 50, I got an automated phone call from my PPO telling me to get a colonoscopy. Went to my PCP who scheduled the colonoscopy. Had it done. Insurance denied payment. Why--because it was done in a building labeled 'surgery center' and not in a 'doctor's office' even though it was the building where the doctor had his office. I appealed since my policy clearly says is covers pre-cancer screenings and they told me to get it done. Denied. A year later, State senator passed a bill simply stating that insurance companies had to pay for colonoscopies. I'm assuming he had the same insurance company as me and they did the same thing to him.
I'm sure there are thousands of stories like this and someone is driving around in a BMW on the basis of denied colonoscopy payments.

At least you avoided the VA and its scoping practices

hill · #24 02-21-2013, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Don't I know it. When I turned 50, I got an automated phone call from my PPO telling me to get a colonoscopy. Went to my PCP who scheduled the colonoscopy. Had it done. Insurance denied payment. Why--because it was done in a building labeled 'surgery center' and not in a 'doctor's office' even though it was the building where the doctor had his office. I appealed since my policy clearly says is covers pre-cancer screenings and they told me to get it done. Denied. A year later, State senator passed a bill simply stating that insurance companies had to pay for colonoscopies. I'm assuming he had the same insurance company as me and they did the same thing to him.
I'm sure there are thousands of stories like this and someone is driving around in a BMW on the basis of denied colonoscopy payments.

Sorry to hear that. By the way prepare yourself for some tasteless jokes

jplinville · #25 02-21-2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greazzer

You have grossly under stated the horrible health care that the VA provides to our Veterans. My guess is that the VA system is the "roll model" for Obamacare, and it should be called Obamacare since this is the flagship of his administration. I highly doubt the administration and certain media outlets will be able to blame bush for Obamacare. There is at least one major scandal every other month at DORN VA hospital in Columbia, S.C., and DORN is considered one of the better VA medical centers. My guess is that the VA killed far more former troops (now called veterans) than the enemy ever dreamed of. And by scandal, not talking about what secretary is getting bonk'd by this or that high level administrator. I have a buddy who works there and every month or two the VA is caught either killing or seriously injuring a lot of veterans since healthcare is "policy" and all vet's get this or that treatment. Sad thing is that the vets really cannot sue the doctors or the VA. Some of the "policies" included re-using scopes for those vets over 50, and about 500 were identified as getting HIV and Hep C. My guess something that goes up one's rectum should be completely cleaned or not reused. Or, the "experimental" cancer treatments without any real paper trail relative to waivers and releases permitting the experimentation vs just giving the approved care with a high success rate. Another buddy who is a veteran was told his wait to see an "expert" regarding serious nerve damage to the neck and back area was "only" 90 days. Then again, the doctor he will most likely see is a Track 3 doctor who can barely speak let alone understand English. I think if this is the overall outcome or final product for Obamacare, then the voting majority deserves what it receives.

Here's how the VA killed my dad.

Dayton VA Medical Center Notifies Veterans of Screening for HIV/AIDS | Veterans Today

Dad went in to the dentist, this same dentist, a week and half prior to dying. After dad's remains were turned to ash and in the ground for nearly 4 months, we find out about this. By then, the VA had incinerated the cultures of the infection that killed my dad, meaning there was no way to prove the infection came from the dentist, other than through lab records which were "misplaced".

Yeah, I'm more than a bit sour by how the VA runs things...and sure as hell don't want that for me and my family.

greazzer · #26 02-21-2013, 05:17 PM

I am very, very sorry for your loss.

I would certainly not want the VA-like system for you or your family ... or my family either ... But it looks like Obamacare will take root in this country. However, this appears to be the road we are traveling on right now and because so many think they are getting something for free or nearly free, my guess it will replace the system we have now. I would rather have the option to pay high prices for the best vs. pay a tax, although cheaper, for really poor or "average" care. Not a real big fan of the gifts which the government likes to hand out to the voters since the consequences and strings attached never justify the end product. Ahhh ... such is the price of social justice.

Again, I am sorry for your loss.

HuskyMan · #27 02-21-2013, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

Here's how the VA killed my dad.

Dayton VA Medical Center Notifies Veterans of Screening for HIV/AIDS | Veterans Today

Dad went in to the dentist, this same dentist, a week and half prior to dying. After dad's remains were turned to ash and in the ground for nearly 4 months, we find out about this. By then, the VA had incinerated the cultures of the infection that killed my dad, meaning there was no way to prove the infection came from the dentist, other than through lab records which were "misplaced".

Yeah, I'm more than a bit sour by how the VA runs things...and sure as hell don't want that for me and my family.

It is said that during the War Between the States AKA the "Civil" War, a soldier was seven times more likely to die in a field hospital due to complications from medication/surgery than on the field of battle. Perhaps that same level of care became the standard for today's VA hospitals. And yes, if they screw you over you cannot sue them, whether active duty or not.

During WWII, Nazi doctors were known to use their knowledge of medicine to inflict pain and torture. Aren't today's veterans being subjected to the same pain and torture at the hands of government doctors?

Better to die in my own bed and on my own terms than at the hands of a government "Soviet Style" doctor.

greazzer · #28 02-21-2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

It is said that during the War Between the States AKA the "Civil" War, a soldier was seven times more likely to die in a field hospital due to complications from medication/surgery than on the field of battle. Perhaps that same level of care became the standard for today's VA hospitals. And yes, if they screw you over you cannot sue them, whether active duty or not.

During WWII, Nazi doctors were known to use their knowledge of medicine to inflict pain and torture. Aren't today's veterans being subjected to the same pain and torture at the hands of government doctors?

Better to die in my own bed and on my own terms than at the hands of a government "Soviet Style" doctor.

Bingo ... and what are the arguments again showing how great Obamacare will be again ?

jplinville · #29 02-21-2013, 05:25 PM

30 years ago, the VA was known as a "Pack 'em and stack 'em" place to die. The care was better at the veterinarian clinic.

And today, it's seen as the way for the rest of the nation to go...

What a freakin' mess.

jplinville · #30 02-21-2013, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greazzer

Again, I am sorry for your loss.

Thanks.

Once everything came out about it, getting our hands on dad's full medical records from the VA was impossible. Mom had records of dates and procedures performed on dad over the years, and we've been able to paint the picture, but without dad's complete medical records being given to us, there's nothing that can be proved.

At least, through dad's time served and his injuries/illnesses sustained from his time in Vietnam, Mom is taken care of. CHAMP and Medicare is my mom's insurance, and she currently doesn't have to go to the VA for care.

How a medical system can do something like this to our Vets, our Heroes, is beyond me.

As you can see...I'm quite raw about the whole thing, and will be for years to come.