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  #16  
Old 03-24-2013, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
If you are driving on an uninterrupted piece of ice the statement would be true but that is rarely the case. Typically the roads I have traveled on have patches of ice/road intermixed so if a car with AWD has a tire that hits a patch of good road it can give a bit of added traction and movement where a 2WD would not.
It can give a bit of added traction. Correct. You affect the capability of the vehicle to move "forward".

It cannot affect or improve the "handling" of the vehicle, which, by definition, affects the ability to change the direction you want the vehicle to go.

I'm a bit surprised you would be in the 4wd camp for all the wrong reasons.

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  #17  
Old 03-24-2013, 05:32 PM
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My 2wd f-150 would get stuck even if it wasn't snowing. My mountaineer AWD worked well this winter.
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  #18  
Old 03-24-2013, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Clk Man View Post
My 2wd f-150 would get stuck even if it wasn't snowing. My mountaineer AWD worked well this winter.
You're comparing an ill-balanced (front heavy unless loaded) RWD vehicle to an AWD truck that has better balance. Compare a 2WD car with close to 50/50 balance and winter tires to an AWD vehicle and the comparison becomes much closer.
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  #19  
Old 03-24-2013, 06:13 PM
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When my wife got her 300E stuck on a friends street in 6" of slush/ice/sleet on the street, I cruised on over in my 300SD, put a tow cable between our tow hooks and proceeded to drag the 300E about 1,200 feet uphill to the main road without an issue. She only told me afterwards that she had been on the brakes for half of it! I never noticed The 300E also had a lot of what was on the street on the hood/window.


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  #20  
Old 03-24-2013, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
Why does the car look like it has camo on it?
Well, perhaps because it's a dupe picture posted from elsewhere. FWIW, that body style of Audi pictured was by measure, one of the most dated / homely designs of it's time. It only gets worse by seeing it again in 2013.
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  #21  
Old 03-24-2013, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Well, perhaps because it's a dupe picture posted from elsewhere. FWIW, that body style of Audi pictured was by measure, one of the most dated / homely designs of it's time. It only gets worse by seeing it again in 2013.
Compared to a lot of modern designs with high beltlines and windows like arrow-slits in a medieval fortress, the Audi is a work of genius. Windows? Visibility? Who knew that there was a time when those things actually existed WITHOUT fancy-schmancy bumper warning systems and beepers.

The design actually harks back to the NSU Ro80 (Audi bought the company):
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So Much for AWD-1967_77_nsu_ro_80_02.jpg  
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  #22  
Old 03-24-2013, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
Having driven an AWD vehicle in the snow (Audi 5000Q), I can say this article is baloney. I had snows on both my FWD Jetta and AWD Audi, and the Audi cornered better, moved off from a stop better, and seemed to steer better too. Of course I also know how to drive in the snow, so I didn't push it. But it was amazing how I simply couldn't get the car stuck.



That was in Michigan. Here in Virginia there is definitely less need for AWD.

-J
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  #23  
Old 03-24-2013, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
Why does the car look like it has camo on it?

Because it looks awesome


Alright, for those who want to get scientific about all this, read up.

all 4WD/AWD on one page - a simple, easy to understand overview - all available 4WD, all wheel drive and 4x4 systems and their differences - 4WD concepts, their function, their layout, their purpose, their advantages

And as far as snow traction is concerned there is really only one answer.

How many snow tire chains are needed for snow and ice on a 4 wheel drive SUV (4x4)? If only one set - mount snow chains front or rear?
http://www.rubicon-trail.com/jeep101/chains.html
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  #24  
Old 03-25-2013, 01:57 AM
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If a given person can't drive on snowy roads with 2WD, they can't with AWD, either.

AWD simply allows idiots to believe the laws of physics are suggestions, and thereby to get in trouble that much faster.
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  #25  
Old 03-25-2013, 09:30 AM
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My Subie feels very planted on the road and it likes to go up to 80-90 MPH and stay there. Of course those speeds would be a little crazy in the rain or snow, but I'm still able to comfortably go a little faster than the herd. There is less chance of fishtailing since all four wheels are pushing or getting engine braking at the same time (at least with the manual trans, not sure about automatics). It is confidence-inspiring, though I'm always aware that there might be a false sense of security, and common sense should dictate. Getting the best tires you can afford is more important than any particular drive system.
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  #26  
Old 03-25-2013, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by raymr View Post
It is confidence-inspiring, though I'm always aware that there might be a false sense of security, and common sense should dictate. .
Common sense never dictates. Certain people drive at speeds that are ridiculous and then they claim the "slippery road" caused them to end up with the vehicle on it's roof. Somehow those four driving wheels didn't help them all that much, despite the claims of their friends and the vehicle manufacturer.

Once day, when they kill somebody, they might get some common sense for the remainder of their lives and realize that their excessive speed got them to their destinations a good two minutes faster than the traffic that actually had the common sense in the first place.

The average person is a moron.
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  #27  
Old 03-25-2013, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Common sense never dictates. Certain people drive at speeds that are ridiculous and then they claim the "slippery road" caused them to end up with the vehicle on it's roof. Somehow those four driving wheels didn't help them all that much, despite the claims of their friends and the vehicle manufacturer.

Once day, when they kill somebody, they might get some common sense for the remainder of their lives and realize that their excessive speed got them to their destinations a good two minutes faster than the traffic that actually had the common sense in the first place.

The average person is a moron.
I can't wait to see the lawsuits regarding the new lane departure warning systems and automatic collision avoidance. (Gee, my car was supposed to avoid that truck!) I suspect lots of high priced lawyers and lots of black box evidence will be involved.
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  #28  
Old 03-25-2013, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by raymr View Post
I can't wait to see the lawsuits regarding the new lane departure warning systems and automatic collision avoidance. (Gee, my car was supposed to avoid that truck!) I suspect lots of high priced lawyers and lots of black box evidence will be involved.
Reminds me of those stories of people who turn the cruise control on and go off to do something else thinking the car will drive itself
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  #29  
Old 03-25-2013, 11:35 AM
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Tires are very important when the road conditions deteriorate. A 1970 Chevy pickup (I have one and it possesses abysmal icy-road performance) on good snow tires will fare better than an Outback with 4 underinflated baldies.
But with comparable tires a competent driver will be more secure and enjoy better performance (except braking) in a 4WD/AWD car in nearly all road conditions, especially ice and snow.
The author is misleading when he states that by minimizing oversteer an AWD car isn't improving handling, it's aiding acceleration. BS. And on an icy road acceleration isn't the goal, trying to maintain control is and AWD helps this without question.
Go where there's snow and see what the locals drive. The key is driver skill and caution and knowing that while AWD gives you the ability to drive faster than much of the traffic it can also get you in over your head when you're faced with the need to change direction or brake rapidly.
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  #30  
Old 03-25-2013, 11:41 AM
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AWD or 4WD will make a vehicle traveling on slippery highways more stable. here is why....if it is very slick, if only two wheels are driving it is able to lose traction with the driven wheels and the vehicle will slew to one side or the other. If FWD that will mean it will simply begin to plow off the road.

I have driven my Montero on slippery highways and in windy conditions I stopped and engaged 4wd high range and straight line stability improved markedly.

I am a rear drive lover and find in most cases 2wd with no LSD is just fine but particularly in my Mitsu which is high center of gravity and short wheelbase and has LSd on the rear axle and perhaps a front weight bias (not really sure about that) the difference when driving on a truly slippery highway is remarkable. I believe this will apply to cornering too but when slippery I am pretty careful with that.

The AWD Magnum I had was good too.

Though Once I got stuck in the end of my driveway and the car simply would not move. I switched off the traction control (or stability control) and drove right out.

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