Got what was coming... - Page 9 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

10fords · #**121** 05-09-2013, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorn

Sharia law, great idea!

Only one flaw in your statement- Sharia law is fine with porking little girls. Think Aisha. If this story is true I think it is a triumph for justice. To the OP- don't say anything else about it or some bleeding heart will try to make a name for himself by ****** over your friend for doing the right thing. As we say around my area about "endangered" mountain lions- shoot, shovel, shut up.

aklim · #**122** 05-10-2013, 10:33 AM

What has Sharia Law got to do with anything? I thought Sharia Law was a religious code of conduct? What has that got to do with harsh punishments?

HuskyMan · #**123** 05-10-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmaysob

do you have kids huskyman?

so you would just stand back and let this unfold while johnny law tries to make his way there?

Drop the emotional part and come to grips with this: What is legal and fair are often two entirely different things. Let's say someone attacks your child and you move to defend your child from harm. In the process, you kill the guy. In the eyes of the public, you may be "off the hook", HOWEVER, in the eyes of the local District Attorney, not so fast. Perhaps it is discovered that you and the perp have a history of conflicts. That may weigh in on the DA's decision to bring charges. And, if you do happen to get charged you will have to acquire a defense lawyer and pay for the lawyer out of your pocket (fees ranging from a few thousand up to millions) OR take your chances with a public defender (good luck). Next, up, you may be offered a plea deal or maybe not which means you automatically go to trial. Juries are notoriously unpredictable so maybe you beat the wrap but then again, maybe you don't. Perhaps the jury decides you used unnecessary force against the perp. If the jury finds you guilty of 'use of unnecessary force' off to jail you go.

So you see, there are no easy answers to what you should do in the event you or your family members are physically attacked.

What I am saying is this. Best to check your emotions at the door before defending yourself or a family member against an attacker. According to the laws of nature, you have the natural right to defend yourself and your family. OTH, according to "the law", you walk a thin line as to what exactly you are allowed to do in regards to defending yourself or a family member. Attackers don't care about that aspect of the law which gives them an undecided advantage when they decide to inflict physical harm.

The deck is stacked and it isn't in your favor.

aklim · #**124** 05-10-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

Drop the emotional part and come to grips with this: What is legal and fair are often two entirely different things. Let's say someone attacks your child and you move to defend your child from harm. In the process, you kill the guy. In the eyes of the public, you may be "off the hook", HOWEVER, in the eyes of the local District Attorney, not so fast. Perhaps it is discovered that you and the perp have a history of conflicts. That may weigh in on the DA's decision to bring charges. And, if you do happen to get charged you will have to acquire a defense lawyer and pay for the lawyer out of your pocket (fees ranging from a few thousand up to millions) OR take your chances with a public defender (good luck). Next, up, you may be offered a plea deal or maybe not which means you automatically go to trial. Juries are notoriously unpredictable so maybe you beat the wrap but then again, maybe you don't. Perhaps the jury decides you used unnecessary force against the perp. If the jury finds you guilty of 'use of unnecessary force' off to jail you go.

So you see, there are no easy answers to what you should do in the event you or your family members are physically attacked.

What I am saying is this. Best to check your emotions at the door before defending yourself or a family member against an attacker. According to the laws of nature, you have the natural right to defend yourself and your family. OTH, according to "the law", you walk a thin line as to what exactly you are allowed to do in regards to defending yourself or a family member. Attackers don't care about that aspect of the law which gives them an undecided advantage when they decide to inflict physical harm.

The deck is stacked and it isn't in your favor.

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps...... Perhaps if it happens on the forth Tuesday of the month instead of the first or second or third, it might be different but only if the year is NOT a leap year.

If you want to kick up a weird scenario, sure. Obviously if you have had a long history with the perp, it is going to look suspicious. If I buy a million dollar life insurance policy on you and you happen to die in my house, you bet it looks suspicious. If that is the grounds for saying the deck is stacked against me, sure. Got any more far fetched scenarios?

HuskyMan · #**125** 05-10-2013, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps...... Perhaps if it happens on the forth Tuesday of the month instead of the first or second or third, it might be different but only if the year is NOT a leap year.

If you want to kick up a weird scenario, sure. Obviously if you have had a long history with the perp, it is going to look suspicious. If I buy a million dollar life insurance policy on you and you happen to die in my house, you bet it looks suspicious. If that is the grounds for saying the deck is stacked against me, sure. Got any more far fetched scenarios?

Yeah, I admit, it is strictly hypothetical. Scenarios like this have never happened.

aklim · #**126** 05-10-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

Yeah, I admit, it is strictly hypothetical. Scenarios like this have never happened.

Again, you are like the guy that goes to a bar to pick a fight. When you get beat up, you complain that the bar is a bad place.

Obviously, there are going to be factors that weigh into the decision since there are people that kill others and make it look like self defense or an accident. Your thesis seems to be that if you cannot kill with impunity and call it self defense, the deck is stacked unfairly against you. Not even the fictional character James Bond 007 could kill that way.

Of course if they allowed every killing to be called self defense, you'd be squealing that they didn't check out this or that one properly. As I said, you are merely looking for a fight and when you get beat, you complain, never admitting that you went out to pick one in the first place.

HuskyMan · #**127** 05-10-2013, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Again, you are like the guy that goes to a bar to pick a fight. When you get beat up, you complain that the bar is a bad place.

Obviously, there are going to be factors that weigh into the decision since there are people that kill others and make it look like self defense or an accident. Your thesis seems to be that if you cannot kill with impunity and call it self defense, the deck is stacked unfairly against you. Not even the fictional character James Bond 007 could kill that way.

Of course if they allowed every killing to be called self defense, you'd be squealing that they didn't check out this or that one properly. As I said, you are merely looking for a fight and when you get beat, you complain, never admitting that you went out to pick one in the first place.

It appears that you tend to view any writing from the stand point that the writer is trying to stack the deck this way or that. You appear to be unable to view scenarios objectively and with an open mind. Don't feel bad, most people do exactly the same thing. This is why Juries and Jury pools are unpredictable.

The "system" kicks into full gear AFTER the "incident" occurs.

Everyone from the cops, DA and the investigators are literally arm chair quarterbacks. They weren't present when the "incident" occurred therefore they can only speculate as to what really happened. The parties to the incident provide statements to the cops and possibly there are other witnesses and perhaps a video tape exists (or maybe two or more video tapes taken from different viewing angles exists).

Remember this: people may not intentionally tell a lie, but their statement may not coincide 100% with what actually happened. It is called vantage point and it is like opinions and noses, everyone has one.

You say you have two witnesses to the event? Most likely you now have two different opinions as to what happened. Who is right and who is wrong? Perhaps BOTH witnesses are right and both are wrong......the waters become muddy.

It's an unpredictable world out there.......

aklim · #**128** 05-10-2013, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

It appears that you tend to view any writing from the stand point that the writer is trying to stack the deck this way or that. You appear to be unable to view scenarios objectively and with an open mind. Don't feel bad, most people do exactly the same thing. This is why Juries and Jury pools are unpredictable.

The "system" kicks into full gear AFTER the "incident" occurs.

Everyone from the cops, DA and the investigators are literally arm chair quarterbacks. They weren't present when the "incident" occurred therefore they can only speculate as to what really happened. The parties to the incident provide statements to the cops and possibly there are other witnesses and perhaps a video tape exists (or maybe two or more video tapes taken from different viewing angles exists).

Remember this: people may not intentionally tell a lie, but their statement may not coincide 100% with what actually happened. It is called vantage point and it is like opinions and noses, everyone has one.

You say you have two witnesses to the event? Most likely you now have two different opinions as to what happened. Who is right and who is wrong? Perhaps BOTH witnesses are right and both are wrong......the waters become muddy.

It's an unpredictable world out there.......

Dunno but you seem to mention the odds are against you, did you not? Yes, if you insist on a guarantee of perfection, supposedly God will give that to you or so I have been told. So if you are going to insist on that, like I said, you will be disappointed and will always have something to gripe about.

We are not talking about a hypothetical case where the guy kills someone and tries to make it look like an accident or self defense. You are correct that the case will be investigated and if there are fishy items going on, it will merit a more through investigation and a trial or whatever.

Again, that said, it doesn't say the system is perfect or totally FUBARed. If you want to pull up a case or two and say "Well, see? There is imperfection.", let me save you the trouble and say "There always will be.". If you choose to pick out a line from the passage and make claims WITHOUT reading the passage, you can make any ridiculous claim look true. After all, as I said, Cardinal Richelieu already said he can find something in what someone read to convict him with or so was said. As I said, you seem to excel in picking out one item out of a thousand and make a complaint WITHOUT reading context.

kmaysob · #**129** 05-10-2013, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

Drop the emotional part and come to grips with this: What is legal and fair are often two entirely different things. Let's say someone attacks your child and you move to defend your child from harm. In the process, you kill the guy. In the eyes of the public, you may be "off the hook", HOWEVER, in the eyes of the local District Attorney, not so fast. Perhaps it is discovered that you and the perp have a history of conflicts. That may weigh in on the DA's decision to bring charges. And, if you do happen to get charged you will have to acquire a defense lawyer and pay for the lawyer out of your pocket (fees ranging from a few thousand up to millions) OR take your chances with a public defender (good luck). Next, up, you may be offered a plea deal or maybe not which means you automatically go to trial. Juries are notoriously unpredictable so maybe you beat the wrap but then again, maybe you don't. Perhaps the jury decides you used unnecessary force against the perp. If the jury finds you guilty of 'use of unnecessary force' off to jail you go.

So you see, there are no easy answers to what you should do in the event you or your family members are physically attacked.

What I am saying is this. Best to check your emotions at the door before defending yourself or a family member against an attacker. According to the laws of nature, you have the natural right to defend yourself and your family. OTH, according to "the law", you walk a thin line as to what exactly you are allowed to do in regards to defending yourself or a family member. Attackers don't care about that aspect of the law which gives them an undecided advantage when they decide to inflict physical harm.

The deck is stacked and it isn't in your favor.

i see what your trying to say, but how does any parent in their right mind just stand back while the cops are on their way?

I would feel a whole lot better sitting in jail knowing my son is alive and well than sitting in my living room waiting for the cops to find him alive and well.

every time i have ever called the cops they were there too late.

aklim · #**130** 05-10-2013, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmaysob

i see what your trying to say, but how does any parent in their right mind just stand back while the cops are on their way?

I would feel a whole lot better sitting in jail knowing my son is alive and well than sitting in my living room waiting for the cops to find him alive and well.

every time i have ever called the cops they were there too late.

Well, we cannot and probably should not have a cop behind us every day, every minute, every second. So, I'd think that if we simply sat back and waited for someone to come, as you say, it is too late. I don't think that anyone will begrudge us, PROVIDED IT IS AN HONEST EFFORT, the opportunity to defend ourselves and our loved ones.

That said, if a person is killed, even in self defense, I think it behooves us to check out the story and if it passes muster, fine. If not, perhaps it is a fabrication by someone who wants that person killed and is making it up to cover up a murder.

HuskyMan · #**131** 05-10-2013, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Well, we cannot and probably should not have a cop behind us every day, every minute, every second. So, I'd think that if we simply sat back and waited for someone to come, as you say, it is too late. I don't think that anyone will begrudge us, PROVIDED IT IS AN HONEST EFFORT, the opportunity to defend ourselves and our loved ones.

That said, if a person is killed, even in self defense, I think it behooves us to check out the story and if it passes muster, fine. If not, perhaps it is a fabrication by someone who wants that person killed and is making it up to cover up a murder.

the SAFECO insurance guy has a cop in the shower

. I've spoken with more than one individual who fully understands that if they choose to defend themselves against an attacker, they may end up in jail. Those with strong parental instincts tell me they have no problem going to jail in defense of their children.

IT IS TOO BAD THAT THEY HAVE TO MAKE THAT CHOICE, DON'T YOU THINK?

aklim · #**132** 05-10-2013, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

the SAFECO insurance guy has a cop in the shower

. I've spoken with more than one individual who fully understands that if they choose to defend themselves against an attacker, they may end up in jail. Those with strong parental instincts tell me they have no problem going to jail in defense of their children.

IT IS TOO BAD THAT THEY HAVE TO MAKE THAT CHOICE, DON'T YOU THINK?

Well, if you do something stupid, parental instincts is not and should not be a license. Like I said, if you have gut shot the guy and proceed to empty the gun into his head, telling me parental instincts did it might as well be saying "The devil made me do it". If that is what you are hoping for, I guess you can say that if they choose to defend themselves and go beyond reason, the could end up in jail.

Nope. I don't believe they have to make that choice unless they are trying to kill someone and blame it on something else. I have no fear that if I am shooting someone for trying to hurt me or the wife because I am not trying to make a murder case into a self defense case. The odds of me getting into trouble, because I am not trying that stunt is so slim, I'd have more worries about getting caught with a non functioning parachute in a skydive since I hate heights and probably won't do that. Could either case happen? Sure. I could change my mind and kill someone and try make it look like an accident just as I could jump out of a plane and the chute might not work. If you look at it that way, anything can happen. However, since it is so unlikely, you'll pardon me if I don't buy insurance for those specific cases.

duxthe1 · #**133** 05-10-2013, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

What I am saying is this. Best to check your emotions at the door before defending yourself or a family member against an attacker. According to the laws of nature, you have the natural right to defend yourself and your family. OTH, according to "the law", you walk a thin line as to what exactly you are allowed to do in regards to defending yourself or a family member. Attackers don't care about that aspect of the law which gives them an undecided advantage when they decide to inflict physical harm.

This may be true when you are on equal legal footing with the attacker. However say the attacker is a convicted felon, for say murder. You kill him legitimately defending yourself, you likely dont have too much to worry about. In my friends case it was the fact that the douchebag was a convicted pedophile lying about his identity that turned my friend from a suspect into a hero.

HuskyMan · #**134** 05-10-2013, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Well, if you do something stupid, parental instincts is not and should not be a license. Like I said, if you have gut shot the guy and proceed to empty the gun into his head, telling me parental instincts did it might as well be saying "The devil made me do it". If that is what you are hoping for, I guess you can say that if they choose to defend themselves and go beyond reason, the could end up in jail.

Nope. I don't believe they have to make that choice unless they are trying to kill someone and blame it on something else. I have no fear that if I am shooting someone for trying to hurt me or the wife because I am not trying to make a murder case into a self defense case. The odds of me getting into trouble, because I am not trying that stunt is so slim, I'd have more worries about getting caught with a non functioning parachute in a skydive since I hate heights and probably won't do that. Could either case happen? Sure. I could change my mind and kill someone and try make it look like an accident just as I could jump out of a plane and the chute might not work. If you look at it that way, anything can happen. However, since it is so unlikely, you'll pardon me if I don't buy insurance for those specific cases.

Whatever you are smoking, I'd like to try some of it. Reality is killing me.

aklim · #**135** 05-10-2013, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

Whatever you are smoking, I'd like to try some of it.

Reality is killing me.

Even my deminished level of conscience won't allow me to share any dope I have with you after I see your paranoia.

You wouldn't know reality if it walked up and smacked you.

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