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  #16  
Old 06-13-2013, 08:31 AM
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Airlines don't pay the same price and private aviation is discouraged.

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  #17  
Old 06-13-2013, 08:35 AM
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Airlines don't buy avgas, as a general rule.
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  #18  
Old 06-13-2013, 08:57 AM
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Private aviation is discouraged? Who is discouraging it?
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  #19  
Old 06-13-2013, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
Isn't that just it? What, support is coming back to us? I've got my microscope out and I can't find any of it. Here's one thing I've got figured out: The oil gods and the insurance gods have got us by the balls.
You left out the government gods, but don't forget if you listen to them it's for the children.
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  #20  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:17 PM
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Title of thread: AVGAS/Jet fuel prices.

Google: general aviation under assault
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  #21  
Old 06-14-2013, 07:13 AM
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A fuel prices are up the same as road fuel prices. Does that mean there is an assault on car and trick drivers too?

The law suits of the eighties did MUCH more to assault general aviation than fuel prices have ever done.
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  #22  
Old 06-14-2013, 08:41 AM
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There's a lot more to it than that. GA is dying and being pushed along into the grave. As a pilot you really should read a little of this from time to time.

Gotta say that air travel is also taking a beating. When I was a kid it was a luxury and now it is an exercise in herding.

One thing that pisses me off is how stupid rules are for physicals, etc. Why can't one physical work for a driver's license, pilot's license and boat captain's license? Modern conveniences my ass. One security check and one physical would do it all but instead it needs to be more BS and more money.
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  #23  
Old 06-14-2013, 08:46 AM
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One ring to rule them all.
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  #24  
Old 06-14-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
A fuel prices are up the same as road fuel prices. Does that mean there is an assault on car and trick drivers too?
If you are paying big for interest and insurance then they love you. The more the better. If you pay cash for a car and minimal insurance then you are of questionable economic value. Yes, there has been an assault on this approach to driving.

Talk to truck drivers about earning a living with a truck that is more than a few years old. Truck driving is not what it used to be. The man and machine days are almost gone.

Driving ain't what it used to be. I don't see the adventure in sitting at red light after red light in an easy chair with an AC blowing on you and acres of cars parked all around you. If you could pipe exhaust fumes into your house you might as well be watching TV on the couch.

Second thought, TV and PC may be soon obsolete. Have you seen what smart phones can do?

I gotta brag -> My fifth day in size 32 jeans. Down from 38's in under three months. Haven't lost any weight while doing it, better calluses than I have had in years.
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Last edited by TwitchKitty; 06-14-2013 at 09:08 AM.
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  #25  
Old 06-14-2013, 09:04 AM
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Amoeba?
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  #26  
Old 06-14-2013, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TwitchKitty View Post
There's a lot more to it than that. GA is dying and being pushed along into the grave. As a pilot you really should read a little of this from time to time.

Gotta say that air travel is also taking a beating. When I was a kid it was a luxury and now it is an exercise in herding.

One thing that pisses me off is how stupid rules are for physicals, etc. Why can't one physical work for a driver's license, pilot's license and boat captain's license? Modern conveniences my ass. One security check and one physical would do it all but instead it needs to be more BS and more money.

I have read LOTS on this subject. Yes GA is dying, but there's no one that I'm aware of intentionally waging war against it.

You can read on and on ad nauseum about this subject on the pilots discussion forums. What started the decline was all the lawsuits of the eighties. Cessna, Piper, Beechcraft and others were strong, thriving companies with an entire industry of JOBS for many people. THEN the ambulance chasers figured out the treasure trove that was at their feet.

Every time a small plane would go down, the ambulance chasers would file law suits against everyone that had ever had anything to do with that aircraft, the engine maker, the carb maker, and any other company that had any tracability at all to the aircraft.

That resulted in an airplane that a few years previous could be purchased for $30,000 costing $100,000.

In the nineties there were some things that improved that situation some. In the meantime, however, kids for whatever reason, stopped having the desire to fly. As a result, it's not that common to see a youngster want to learn to fly. For those who DO have that desire, they often don't have the funds. It's not an inexpensive hobby, thanks to those lawyers and others.

About the least expensive new Cessna which is good for nothing but training costs $100,000.

Now to the physicals. Do you REALLY think that the criteria for a pilot should be the same as for someone driving an automobile?

About 20 years ago I shot skeet tournaments and flew around some with a guy who was a Delta Airline pilot. About the time I met him, he developed a heart condition and lost his medical. He still had a job running the simulator, but he could not understand why they wouldn't let him fly. The guy had a heart condition. Do YOU want him piloting the 757 that you're taking to Atlanta?

Yes the FAA flight physical process is a big bunch of beauracracy, but it's sort of important to not allow folks to be flying around with a serious medical condition, don't you think?
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  #27  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
I have read LOTS on this subject. Yes GA is dying, but there's no one that I'm aware of intentionally waging war against it.
Except for the airlines, land developers, car manufacturers, insurance companies, others and their lobbyists.

The lawsuits may have been funded by some of these very groups. Things are rarely how they appear in the corporate controlled media.

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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
Now to the physicals. Do you REALLY think that the criteria for a pilot should be the same as for someone driving an automobile?
Automobile? You being silly. All those trucks hauling fifty thousand pounds of acids, explosives and other stuff like cyanide that mass murderers dream about, yes. Stuff that is not even allowed on airplanes. Bus with 71 children, yes. Today's airline pilots go around braindead most of the time. Hero worship, bah.

Yes of course there would be different grades of physicals but if you take the most stringent one today it won't count for the lesser ones. It should. An airline pilot would have to take a second physical to get a USCG license. Shouldn't have to.
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  #28  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:57 AM
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If the FAA wanted to kill general aviation, they wouldn't have brought the light sport rating (with self-certified physical) in during the mid-2000s.
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  #29  
Old 06-14-2013, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TwitchKitty View Post
Except for the airlines, land developers, car manufacturers, insurance companies, others and their lobbyists.

The lawsuits may have been funded by some of these very groups. Things are rarely how they appear in the corporate controlled media.



Automobile? You being silly. All those trucks hauling fifty thousand pounds of acids, explosives and other stuff like cyanide that mass murderers dream about, yes. Stuff that is not even allowed on airplanes. Bus with 71 children, yes. Today's airline pilots go around braindead most of the time. Hero worship, bah.

Yes of course there would be different grades of physicals but if you take the most stringent one today it won't count for the lesser ones. It should. An airline pilot would have to take a second physical to get a USCG license. Shouldn't have to.

So, you are saying that these entities have set out with a mission to destroy GA? I find that difficult to believe. When GA is IN THE WAY of their interests, then sure, they'll step on it and anything else and try to smash it like a bug if it gets in their way. But to say that they have vindetta toward GA is silly.

As far as medicals go, sure a truck driver with a hazardous cargo or a bus driver should undergo more serious physicals.

Now, you can go on back to your rant. Don't let me get in your way.

BTW, if you're looking for someone who hero worships the ATP's, you'll have to find someone else. That's not me.
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  #30  
Old 06-14-2013, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
If the FAA wanted to kill general aviation, they wouldn't have brought the light sport rating (with self-certified physical) in during the mid-2000s.

There has also been lots of investigation and consideration given to taking this same approach for light planes up to 180HP, non complex.

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