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  #1  
Old 07-01-2013, 12:20 PM
davidmash's Avatar
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BMW V Audi. BMW won.

I saw this and had to share.



or not ........



will the battle continue.....?
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  #2  
Old 07-01-2013, 01:26 PM
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I remember a magazine ad of MB showing a large MB truck transporting BMWs - It said something like, you dont teach grampa
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  #3  
Old 07-01-2013, 01:41 PM
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Mercedes still builds a better car, the S class has been king for a long time and that's not changing anytime soon.
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  #4  
Old 07-01-2013, 11:02 PM
Jim B.'s Avatar
Who's flying this thing ?
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N. California./ N. Nevada
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Audi

A year ago I was driving this 2012 Audi A6 20 turbodiesel all up and down the Autobahn, from 130-160 mph daily - and through Bavaria, the French wine country, where this pic was taken, and in Switzerland, Austria, Lichtenstein, and through the Mont Blanc tunnel into Italy.

It was comfortable, competent, and responsive, and smooth, and I saw lots of them on the Autobahn, as clearly they are engineered for ultra high speed long distance cruising.
[/URL]
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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2013, 01:32 AM
Jim B.'s Avatar
Who's flying this thing ?
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N. California./ N. Nevada
Posts: 3,611
2011 Mercedes Benz e350 Sport I owned from 8/2012 to 5/2013

w212; After putting 18k on it these were my impressions. Very spacious and comfortable, most modern conveniences, somewhat user unfriendly COMAND controller for the sat nav and stereo, but once mastered, is pretty great - useful. claimed mpg 17/24 on Premium..

More of a cruiser than a canyon carver, (saw these all over the large cities in Germany, last year being used as taxicabs. There is a reason for this! ) A *very* safe feeling car.

Performance - Good for a Naturally aspirated V6 engine, but took time to wind out to 4500 rpm under full throttle.. this car with the AMG Sport package, had ALL AMG options - suspension, wheels, body kit, steering wheel, but NOT the AMG V8 and not the transmission of that car, but I did not WANT that, merely a sedate but a handling package only, and in an innocuous color.

The gauges though, on the dash were difficult to read. Especially the speedometer;

Compared with the w126, though, the visceral impression was that of being built to a lesser standard of build quality and a far higher amount of complexity compared with the w124/w126 cars I have, and I did not like the donut spare tire.

It somehow did not feel like it would last eternally, as back in the old days. Most of the cars are leased when sold new, - and this one was actually a 9 month year old lease return; and had had some paint work, per the CARFAX and possibly the front had been mildly tweaked, (perhaps by the Beverly Hills lessee) there was evidence the body gaps on the hood weren't quite perfect on this one.

But the paddle shifters behind the steering wheel worked beautifully!

The seats were super, very well stitched, the indestructible mb tex, is great - I liked them a lot!

Compared with the w126, though, the visceral impression was that of being built to a lesser standard of build quality and a far higher amount of complexity compared with the w124/w126 cars I have, and I did not like the donut spare tire.

The car did NOT engender love in any way, though; in fact I think the styling was pretty ugly.

And like many new cars these days, the option packages are bundled.

The reliability of the car though is projected to be very good, according to consumer reports that measure it...far better than the w211 that preceded it.





~~~~

next: BMW 535i "M"' Sport
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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Last edited by Jim B.; 07-02-2013 at 02:34 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2013, 01:42 AM
Jim B.'s Avatar
Who's flying this thing ?
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N. California./ N. Nevada
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2013 BMW 535i "M"' Sport I owned from 5/2013 to date

After 3,300 miles so far on the BMW, here are my impressions:

I think the essential package was almost a direct competitor - as equipped - to the e350 Sport.
Again, all the "M" equipment (except the V8 engine and transmission on the fabled "M5" for $30k extra, too!) package; wheels, body kit, steering wheel, suspension, etc.

Gas mileage per the window sticker is 20/30 (premium gas) which wass the best of the cars...

And the dash gauges are wonderful, easy to read and bathed in lovely red light at night.

Handling is wonderfully crisp and immediate and yet the ride is smooth and relaxed...

But the motor! It's an inline 6, *BUT* with dual turbochargers! Man it sure is quick. The turbo only needs to spool up to 1200 rpm, and you're GONE! This one is NOT a manual, the figure for which 0-60 comes up in 5.7 seconds; but this one with an automatic has got to be close. It's VERY fast. The shifter is more fussy though...takes some getting used to.

As does the keyless go; You push a button to start it, BUT the key for the ignition HAS to be in a little slot between the cupholders, or in your pocket, or 10 feet from the car to make it work. But the function works well, the sound is imperceptible and the starting up is instantaneous, much better than the 2012 Audi A6 turbo diesel I had for 2 weeks in Europe last year. BMW did a fantastic job with this feature. I think it is fine, in execution anyway....

The iDRIVE controller, for me so far is diabolically complex, though in years past, I'm told it was even worse. Though the sound quality is just fine! (Premium system like the e350)...

The seats are leather and awfully comfortable, like the Mercedes w212 there is lots of elbow room and good adjustment options on it, but unlike the familiar controls on the Mercedes w212 driver's door, the BMW's are to the side and bottom of the front seat....tougher to adjust easily...

The rear sunshade is a nice touch that my w212 did not have.

I did NOT like the idea of the run-flat tires, but was assured that unlike the donut spares, and regular tires, the "run flats" do NOT consist of merely a tire on a wheel, but have a very thick skin that encloses an "air chamber" and while their limit is 50 miles (when damaged) they WILL get you that far...

A look under the hood revealed a engine bay so complex I could only shake my head. NOT a DIY scene whatsoever...

But the car's handling - that I have NOT put it to the test - feels serene but hints at great performance. Billed as the mid-size "Ultimate Driving Machine" its heritage and road feel seems to ask for, and indeed promise, real driving involvement. To me this kind of thing is awfully alluring.

And in dark graphite - to me it looks very sinister and quite beautiful - though this opinion of course, is something truly subjective, looking at them side by side it makes me think the w212 is more taxicab like and the fact is, BMW's heritage to this day, also includes fast motorcycles...

Plus of course, there is something to be said for a brand new car hitting the road with 17 miles, and had 5 miles on it when I test drove it. Whereas the w212 had 39,000 miles and just a few hundred away from a HUGE service - the 40,000 mile one, that the dealer wants me to pay $1,200+ for.

Finally, I am not so young, and have no wife or kids to say no, and I have the wherewithal, to get the car I liked, so I did it, and I hope everyone here can ALSO - after retirement, buy whatever cars they want - for cash.



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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Last edited by Jim B.; 07-02-2013 at 02:36 AM.
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  #7  
Old 07-02-2013, 01:56 AM
Jim B.'s Avatar
Who's flying this thing ?
 
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1991 Mercedes Benz 560 SEC AMG I owned from1996 to date

FINALLY -- the 560 SEC with the AMG headers, downpipe, and wheels, and 2.82 rear end, euro bumpers, euro headlights/motors/tail lights, Remus exhaust, and other modifications I have sourced (some with help from you right here on this forum!) mated to the 300 hp euro ECE engine, sold me by "bondavi"....

I bought the car almost 18 years ago, so I have owned it since the mid 1990s.

I am deeply attached to it, and it receives to this day, positive comments! Many more than the other two described above.

Getting and keeping it was something I ALWAYS wanted to do from the day I was handed the keys in late 1985 to a euro spec brand new Lapis Blue 500SEC AMG with 5,000 miles imported for my boss with a fistful of credit cards and instructed to drive it from San Francisco, where I then lived, to Aspen Colorado so he could have it there for XMAS skiing to use.

The dream had to be put to sleep but finally I nabbed the one I have, at a Mercedes Benz dealer by Disneyland, with 50,000 miles on it, and I paid about $39,000 for it, and treated it carefully ever since.

I LOVE IT !!!! Totally over-engineered, absolute top of the Mercedes Benz line, carefully chosen for the pearl black/black leather, cost-no-object build quality plainly evident everywhere, last model year of production, parts always available, can travel to stratospheric miles *IF* well kept up.

And it is VERY mechanic friendly, as we all know, though I make no claim to be handy with wrenches, I understand how to detail a car very very well..
As a big V8, gasoline mileage is not good, compared to the other cars above mentioned. I have never seen 20 mpg ever, the times I checked. It is NOT a car for the parsimonious; its clientele included, for the w126, plutocrats, heads of state, tyrants, criminals, diplomats, sport heroes and musicians. The 1991 560 SEC U.S. spec factory sales brochure calls it a true Grand Touring coupe.

I agree, though in stock form it hates to be caned hard around corners and will certainly let you know that if you try. (which I have done in the past)....

BEFORE I installed the 300 hp ece engine, that had only 54k on it - and had MR MB motors do the refurbish and install, with the stock 238 hp motor one time many many years ago I floored it and held...

Interstate 5 from Nor Cal to So Cal is like a bowling alley. I once saw 152 mph on the car, with that 238 hp motor, and my foot was NOT all the way to the floor.

Even it looks and runs beautifully, though now it is semi-retired, and I only take it out on the weekends mostly, these days. When I took it out on a MBCA rally/drive last weekend it was perfect EXCEPT the horn quit on me after the temperature went over 90*; parked in the shade it came back, and I do wonder what is going on...

But the big S class w126 NEEDS to be driven, to be happy, it MUST be done to avoid "garage death". (and a nice cold Air conditioner from packing in!!)

Yes I have put plenty of $$$ into it, over the years, but the car still is in real good shape throughout, and with the advice and help from folks here, it will last. A LONG time...

And it is so beautiful!!! Bruno Sacco, the designer of the OF THE W126, W124 AND W201 automobiles, which can never, from ANY angle. be mistaken for ANYTHING other than a Mercedes Benz, considers the pinnacle of his career the w126 coupe, and in fact, owns and drives one of them as his personal ride even today!



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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Last edited by Jim B.; 07-02-2013 at 02:42 AM.
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  #8  
Old 07-02-2013, 02:08 AM
Jim B.'s Avatar
Who's flying this thing ?
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N. California./ N. Nevada
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Post Final ranking

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VERY subjective --- in many ways it is comparing apples to oranges; we all have our own personal opinions and prejudices.

That said; the winners, in order are:

1. 1991 560SEC AMG

After 18 years and 47 years of driving, truly the best automobile I have been privileged to own.

Even though it's no longer daily driven, getting in, hearing that bank vault-like THUNK when the door slams home, sitting down and then seizing the steering wheel is like being welcomed by an old friend, or donning a cherished, well fitting old pair of shoes.

It gives the sense of lasting eternally. With the care it has gotten, a car like this ought to last its keeper a million miles or more...

2. BMW 535i M-Sport

Beautiful, efficient, all the latest bells and whistles, obvious great care in assembly, in its fit and finish, a thoroughbred high class luxury sport sedan, totally fun to drive, it is NOT without its negatives.

A VERY fussy and long procedure to start and stop the car when you get in; a lane change feature that does NOT self-cancel (what ON EARTH WERE THEY THINKING?), an unpleasant ly slow "soft close" trunk lid, a VERY difficult iDrive controller, and lack of an old school spare tire are some.

Nonetheless, a super car for long trips. This after a 1,000 miles since 05/25/13. Perfect to start out, as something new and with which to rack up huge "for pleasure" driving miles!

3. Mercedes Benz e350 Sport

Very nice modern luxury car, however to me looks ugly and take off the badging and put next to a Toyota Camry it is hard to tell them apart.

The copycats seem to be the Koreans/Japanese, though it's true that they also like to use the BMW signature "Hoffmeister kink" on most of their sedans too.

Probably VERY safe and secure in a bad wreck - something Mercedes Benz is justifiably famous for, and build quality is climbing rapidly though the days of the w126 "Build it to the highest standard you can with cost no object" seem to be long gone... so MUCH brand equity in the Mercedes Benz marque has ben squandered as the company's marketing and accounting folks have shoved the engineers into the background... built very much to a price point...

Still a great car, but uninspiring to me, and sadly, the visible quality suffers, especially in comparison with the fabled w126.

On May 25, 2013 the Mercedes Benz was traded in on the new BMW, at the BMW dealer closest to me, in Roseville, CA.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2013, 08:10 AM
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I've never owned a BMW or an Audi, though I've driven quite a few of each. I just don't like the way Audi automatic transmissions shift, and looking under the hood of one makes me want to run away (and I have several ASE certifications). BMW's are, in my experience, not that tough to wrench on (usually), and provide an excellent driving experience, but so does a manual Audi.

My Mercedes was hit in the left rear a few months ago, and turned out to be repairable. I'm probably getting it back from the shop this week. However, while there was still some question as to whether it could be fixed for a reasonable price, I looked at what else was available, and think that a BMW could possibly be in my future. Audi, not so much.
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