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  #1  
Old 09-18-2013, 08:56 PM
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Can a private pilot/kid land an airliner?

I watched both of these, pretty interesting it's no A380 or overly large aircraft but it's still really cool to see nonetheless.

Can a private pilot land an airliner? (FREEview 105) - YouTube


Can a kid land an airliner? (FREEview 203) - YouTube <-- Sadly its incomplete, I'd love to see how he did

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  #2  
Old 09-18-2013, 10:59 PM
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This has been my scenario for the next Airport! movie. The pilots and half the passengers are sick from the food, radio is out. No pilots--ex-military or n--ot on board. However several passengers have mastered some version of Flight Controller.
Will they safely land?
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2013, 11:57 PM
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Yes...

Ever since Kurt Russell landed a hijacked 747 in the 1996 movie, 'Executive Decision,' it's proven that the ordinary person can successfully land a heavy airliner.
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  #4  
Old 09-19-2013, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Yes...

Ever since Kurt Russell landed a hijacked 747 in the 1996 movie, 'Executive Decision,' it's proven that the ordinary person can successfully land a heavy airliner.
Sorry this has nothing to do with Kurt Russell it is all about MicroSoft flight simulator X - 10 minutes with this bad boy and you're good to go.
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  #5  
Old 09-19-2013, 05:15 AM
compress ignite's Avatar
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Automatic Landing Systems

"Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Yes...

Ever since Kurt Russell landed a hijacked 747 in the 1996 movie, 'Executive Decision,' it's proven that the ordinary person can successfully land a heavy airliner. "
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ______

Nah!
Almost anything with a "Heavy" designation these days has the capability of
being equipped with ALS!
See:
Autoland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of Note: Apparently there is also a "Manual" ALS.

Traditionally autoland systems have been very expensive, and have been rare on small aircraft. However, as display technology has developed the addition of a Head Up Display (HUD) allows for a trained pilot to manually fly the aircraft using guidance cues from the flight guidance system. This significantly reduces the cost of operating in very low visibility, and allows aircraft which are not equipped for automatic landings to make a manual landing safely at lower levels of look ahead visibility or runway visual range (RVR). Alaska Airlines was the first airline in the world to manually land a passenger-carrying jet (Boeing 737) in FAA Category III weather (dense fog) made possible with the Head-Up Guidance System [3] [4]

After 911, 'Really surprised H.S. didn't force FARs to be promulgated installing
a Big Red "Hijack" button hidden somewhere in the cockpits that would automatically and irrevocably have the Autopilots initiate ALS to the nearest
commercial airport.
(The word "Hijack" would ,Of course be in the Navajo for "Alert" HAIHDESEE)
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  #6  
Old 09-19-2013, 05:24 AM
compress ignite's Avatar
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Automatic Landing Systems

Nah!
Almost anything with a "Heavy" designation these days has the capability of
being equipped with ALS!
See:
Autoland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Traditionally autoland systems have been very expensive, and have been rare on small aircraft. However, as display technology has developed the addition of a Head Up Display (HUD) allows for a trained pilot to manually fly the aircraft using guidance cues from the flight guidance system. This significantly reduces the cost of operating in very low visibility, and allows aircraft which are not equipped for automatic landings to make a manual landing safely at lower levels of look ahead visibility or runway visual range (RVR). Alaska Airlines was the first airline in the world to manually land a passenger-carrying jet (Boeing 737) in FAA Category III weather (dense fog) made possible with the Head-Up Guidance System [3] [4]

After 911, 'Really surprised H.S. didn't force FARs to be promulgated installing
a Big Red "Hijack" button hidden somewhere in the cockpits that would automatically and irrevocably have the Autopilots initiate ALS to the nearest
commercial airport.
(The word "Hijack" would ,Of course be in the Navajo for "Alert" HAIHDESEE)
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  #7  
Old 09-19-2013, 07:11 AM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
This has been my scenario for the next Airport! movie. The pilots and half the passengers are sick from the food, radio is out. No pilots--ex-military or n--ot on board. However several passengers have mastered some version of Flight Controller.
Will they safely land?
Unless there was an ALS involved with a coach on the radio, this would be highly unlikely. I have read about several people who were aces with MS flight simulator, who when put at the controls of any real airplane could not so much as hold the wings level.

There is a LOT of feel that goes into flying, especially in final approach for landing and the flare. That is why federal law requires 3 landings within the last 90 days are required for carrying passengers. For pilots that have not been flying much, three is probably not enough.

I saw that video a few years ago on the TV show. Although that guy is not exactly Bob Hoover or Chuck Yeager, he is an experienced and current pilot accustomed to flying a glass panel. In addition, he had enough coaching and time to find out about some of the controls so that he didn't have to be fumbling around and distracted while on short final.

If you are ever in a plane in this situation, and the plane will have to be flown by hand, you will have a massively better chance with someone who flies ANY airplane, than you will have if a highly experienced MS Flight Simulator guy is at the controls.
  #8  
Old 09-19-2013, 09:51 AM
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A number of years ago I remember reading a book about learning to fly. It was by no means detailed, but rather an overview of one man's experiences and wisdom gained through his years of flying. I remember him telling that usually taking off and flying is the easier part. Landing is the trickier part. He did add, "Any landing that you can walk away from is a good landing".
I once took a trail flight lesson. The biggest problem that I had was that is was a very windy day and trying to taxi the plane in a straight line was a serious pain.
I love the feeling of flying in small aircraft.
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  #9  
Old 09-19-2013, 09:54 AM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compress ignite View Post
Nah!
Almost anything with a "Heavy" designation these days has the capability of
being equipped with ALS!
See:
Autoland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Traditionally autoland systems have been very expensive, and have been rare on small aircraft. However, as display technology has developed the addition of a Head Up Display (HUD) allows for a trained pilot to manually fly the aircraft using guidance cues from the flight guidance system. This significantly reduces the cost of operating in very low visibility, and allows aircraft which are not equipped for automatic landings to make a manual landing safely at lower levels of look ahead visibility or runway visual range (RVR). Alaska Airlines was the first airline in the world to manually land a passenger-carrying jet (Boeing 737) in FAA Category III weather (dense fog) made possible with the Head-Up Guidance System [3] [4]

After 911, 'Really surprised H.S. didn't force FARs to be promulgated installing
a Big Red "Hijack" button hidden somewhere in the cockpits that would automatically and irrevocably have the Autopilots initiate ALS to the nearest
commercial airport.
(The word "Hijack" would ,Of course be in the Navajo for "Alert" HAIHDESEE)

There IS a magic button for indicating hijack. It is a particular code keyed into the transponder. Although it would probably be easy for someone to google it, I would rather not post it on a public forum. You never know what potential hijacker might be lurking.
  #10  
Old 09-19-2013, 09:57 AM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate300d View Post
A number of years ago I remember reading a book about learning to fly. It was by no means detailed, but rather an overview of one man's experiences and wisdom gained through his years of flying. I remember him telling that usually taking off and flying is the easier part. Landing is the trickier part. He did add, "Any landing that you can walk away from is a good landing".
I once took a trail flight lesson. The biggest problem that I had was that is was a very windy day and trying to taxi the plane in a straight line was a serious pain.
I love the feeling of flying in small aircraft.

That's correct. Most people with a little coaching before hand in a tricycle gear trainer, could start rolling down the runway and get the plane in the air with no assistance.

Landing is a whole different kettle of fish.

Also, take offs are optional, landings are mandatory.
  #11  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
take offs are optional, landings are mandatory.
Sounds like a great motto to instill in to all new people learning to fly.

I wish I had the $$$ to have my own. When I started at my job we were privately owned. The small county airport is less than 4 miles away. When ever there was a customer issue the owner hired a plane to get a group on site ASAP. The most common plane I flew is was a 310 Cessna. One was a slightly larger Piper, but I do not remember the model. I miss to days.
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  #12  
Old 09-19-2013, 10:52 AM
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The 310 Cessna is now a 60 year old design, but it's timeless. IMHO probably the best looking light twin in the sky.

In the early fifties there was a TV show called "Sky King" and he flew a 310. It's name was "Song Bird."

There are still plenty of them in the sky, most of them nicely updated. If you can afford to put fuel in one, it's a nice, quick mode of transportation.
  #13  
Old 09-19-2013, 12:24 PM
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I have never been in one, but another that I think looks timeless is the Beechcraft Bonanza with the V-tail empennage. I have no idea how well the V-tails fly versus the later with the conventional empennage.
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1984 190 2.3 ex-wife got it and let her son destroy a great car
1985 300D (CA version) aka Maybelline lost to deer at high speed.
1981 300D aka Madeline (went to salvage at near 400k) rusty, yet best car I ever drove
Wishlist:
McFarlan TV6 (only a few privately owned)
ReVere with Rochester engine
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  #14  
Old 09-19-2013, 12:33 PM
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Hey the airlines have a perfect safety record... they've never left anyone up in the sky to date!

-J
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  #15  
Old 09-19-2013, 12:54 PM
Posting since Jan 2000
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate300d View Post
I have never been in one, but another that I think looks timeless is the Beechcraft Bonanza with the V-tail empennage. I have no idea how well the V-tails fly versus the later with the conventional empennage.

The Beech Bonanza, often otherwise known as the "Forked Tail Doctor Killer" is indeed beautiful to look at as well as a beautiful flying airplane.

The problem with them was a weak fuselage spar. The planes are so clean and fast, if an inexperienced pilot lets one get into a dive, which is easy because it is so clean, they often break the tail off trying to pull it out of the dive. As of about 20 years ago 400 people had died as a result of this weakness, with about 200 of the deaths being doctors, thus the nickname.

An Airworthiness Directive was issued a LONG time ago to beef up the tail. Some say that it is adequately strong now, but I believe there have still been similar accidents in them since the issuance of the AD.

Buddy Holly, Richy Valenz and the Big Bopper were all victims of this weakness.

The fellow that designed the Bonanza carried great guilt and later he designed the Mooney M 2X series. He designed it with the fuselage inner structure and wing inner structure as a SUPER STRONG, integrated unit.

In the eighties when the Mooney company was for sale, a company considering purchase, Rockwell I think it was, sent some engineers to do destructive testing on the airframe in order to try to determine what potential liability might be involved with the design. The engineers built what they thought was an indestructible fixture to test the stress capabilities of the airframe. They ended up breaking their test fixture instead of the airframe.

It was clear that the designer was never going to let a structural weakness be part of his designs ever again.

There was a point when Beech put a conventional tail on the Bonanza and changed the name. I don't even remember what the new name is because among pilots, it is typically called a "straight tail Bonanza."

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