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  #1  
Old 10-10-2013, 11:17 PM
TylerH860's Avatar
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Talking Waterless Coolant? No politics. No polls.

I was watching an episode of wheeler dealers and Ed China went into detail about the benefits of waterless coolant. I had never heard of it until now.

Supposedly it lasts the life of the car, and does not expand like water so you can pop the radiator cap off with the engine running at full temperature. No corrosion, no environmental issues, higher boiling points, and better MPG.

So, its expensive, but you only use it once and its much better for the car. Why isn't everybody running this?

Jay Leno did a video about it last year. Apparently its very popular with diesel truckers because it improves their economy, more heat resistant, and lasts forever.

Jay Leno's Garage: Waterless Engine Coolant - YouTube

I would think just for safety sake given how poisonous regular coolant is this should be standard equipment, EPA mandated. So many other silly EPA mandates while this one makes sense.

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  #2  
Old 10-10-2013, 11:25 PM
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I've used Evans waterless coolant. Pricey. Doesn't cool as well as regular coolant. High boil point so you can run a non-pressurized system. Someone on the diesel forum always ran it because of the advantage of lack of pressure in an old system.
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  #3  
Old 10-10-2013, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerH860 View Post
So, its expensive, but you only use it once and its much better for the car. Why isn't everybody running this?.
I have been in automotive supply for 25 years...OEMS are cheap, period.

The Auburn Cord Duesenberg Museum is wanting to switch all museum owned cars to this because of corrosion issues.
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  #4  
Old 10-10-2013, 11:47 PM
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Edd China is a paid spokesman for the product....

As others said, it has pluses and minuses. Worst is it has a lower specific heat than water or anti-freeze and therefore will not remove heat as well from the engine. Thus if you have overheating issues they will be made worse. A lot of people think this stuff will cure a fundamental issue with the cooling system, not so.

Stuff is expensive, a pain to get in there (must remove all old coolant) and if you happen to have a leak you would have to carry more of the expensive stuff, or if you topped it off with something else, would require complete flush.

For cars that don't move, its good because there are no corrosion issues.
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  #5  
Old 10-10-2013, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmerich View Post
Worst is it has a lower specific heat than water or anti-freeze and therefore will not remove heat as well from the engine.
I forgot that point.....it would require greater heat exchange components. Not sure the loss on existing cars. I am sure it is a no go for a 810-812 Cord in the summer.
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Current:
1985 300D aka Miss Margaret
1991 300SE aka Alarice
1995 SL320 aka Samantha
1997 K1500 Silverado
Past:
1999 E300 ex-wife got it and let her son ruin it
1984 190 2.3 ex-wife got it and let her son destroy a great car
1985 300D (CA version) aka Maybelline lost to deer at high speed.
1981 300D aka Madeline (went to salvage at near 400k) rusty, yet best car I ever drove
Wishlist:
McFarlan TV6 (only a few privately owned)
ReVere with Rochester engine
1917 Premier (only one left)
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  #6  
Old 10-11-2013, 08:59 AM
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Everything old IS new again. I remember reading the development history of the Rolls Royce Merlin aircraft engine. Originally they ran them on pure ethylene glycol, but after some testing they switched to a 50/50 mix of ethylene glycol and water (otherwise known as the common coolant used from then until now) and saw improvements in cooling and dramatically reduced running temperatures.

I think waterless coolant has a future, but we aren't there yet.
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  #7  
Old 10-11-2013, 11:25 AM
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I've switched my standby generator over to it, it seems to work fine. Keep in mind that there are several versions of NPG depending on the application. It is necessary to have virtually all the water removed from the system. The drained prep fluid can be checked with a refractometer to verify that. I had several questions and I emailed Evans, and had a phone call in less than 15 minutes from the same guy in the Jay Leno video. They don't want to sell direct, they want you to use a dealer. Home Engine Cooling Systems. Coolant.com is the UK website. My signature car will be the next to get it. With a boiling point of 370*, you don't need a pressurized system.
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  #8  
Old 10-11-2013, 11:07 PM
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The NPG stuff is also kinda nasty:
1) if you spill it, hard to clean up, it is slippery and does not evaporate
2) flammable
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  #9  
Old 10-12-2013, 01:43 AM
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I know someone who tried it in a 16v scirocco, its very possible they could have done something wrong like not getting the all the water out, but the temp gauge would climb rapidly after more than a minute or two of idling once the car was up to operating temperature. It was ok when you kept moving though. Once it was switched back to normal coolant it was fine with nothing else being changed.
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  #10  
Old 10-12-2013, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmerich View Post
Edd China is a paid spokesman for the product....

As others said, it has pluses and minuses. Worst is it has a lower specific heat than water or anti-freeze and therefore will not remove heat as well from the engine. Thus if you have overheating issues they will be made worse. A lot of people think this stuff will cure a fundamental issue with the cooling system, not so.

Stuff is expensive, a pain to get in there (must remove all old coolant) and if you happen to have a leak you would have to carry more of the expensive stuff, or if you topped it off with something else, would require complete flush.

For cars that don't move, its good because there are no corrosion issues.
Also as the viscosity is much higher than normal coolant or water the flow rate through the cooling system will be much lower. This makes a bad situation even worse.
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  #11  
Old 10-12-2013, 07:50 AM
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I expect that there are some vehicles that would work out okay as long as they are not in hot climates. I also expect that if a vehicle were designed with this stuff in mind, it could be made to work quite well. If that were done, however, there may very well be some compromises such as added weight or something.

In the engineering and design world, everything is a compromise. Even so, it might be a worthwhile design goal.

As far as mandating for environmental reasons. Phooey!
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  #12  
Old 10-12-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmerich View Post
The NPG stuff is also kinda nasty:
1) if you spill it, hard to clean up, it is slippery and does not evaporate
2) flammable
Ethylene glycol is also flammable.
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  #13  
Old 10-12-2013, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
Also as the viscosity is much higher than normal coolant or water the flow rate through the cooling system will be much lower. This makes a bad situation even worse.
The viscosity of their racing product is thicker; I used their NPG +C, it appears to have the same viscosity as conventional coolants. I even put some in my freezer to see what it looks like at 0*, no difference. Watch the linked video, it will dispel a lot of urban myths and old wives tales.
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  #14  
Old 10-12-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmerich View Post
As others said, it has pluses and minuses. Worst is it has a lower specific heat than water or anti-freeze and therefore will not remove heat as well from the engine. Thus if you have overheating issues they will be made worse. A lot of people think this stuff will cure a fundamental issue with the cooling system, not so.
The waterless coolant has a boiling point of 375F. Therefore, your suggestion that a vehicle will suffer greater "overheating issues" when this product is utilized is a factually incorrect statement.

The cooling system can operate at 150C., if necessary, and the engine won't be harmed a bit.

I might have some reservations about cast iron blocks and aluminum heads due to the wildly different expansion rates, but anything made with cast iron both up and down will never suffer an overheat issue nor will the higher temperatures present any operational difficulties.

Getting the operator to accept the needle buried in the red zone is a completely different problem, however.
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  #15  
Old 10-13-2013, 01:40 AM
waterboarding w/medmech
 
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CAT makes a glycerine based coolant anyone check that out?

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