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  #1  
Old 10-13-2013, 03:45 AM
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Removing collar nut on output flange

Trying to put on a new rear tranny seal on my Bimmer and once again I am reminded of the eternal truth: it's always something. Holy Shiite batperson, this is a tough nut to crack. I cut a piece of exhaust pipe steel, something I had just big enough to slip over the open end of my 22 mm combo wrench. I put that on the Crankshaft nut on the front of the engine so I'd have something to back on. Could not get it to move. It occurs to me that if I start banging on the arm of breaker bar with the 30 mm socket, I might put an unusual sort of force on the tranny. I mean, yeah, they're tough but this is not the normal force they are subjected to.

I like in the Bentley guide, it says "hold the flange steady and remove the collar nut." I have a 30 mm thin-walled socket, I ground it down myself for some other operation when I put in the clutch years ago. I can imagine a special tool that will grip the flange by two of the 3 holes so as "hold it steady." Mine doesn't have a lockplate that I can see - mentioned in the manual, I mean I know what they look like and there's nothing that resembles the concept even. Just a pan of sorts around the nut, with enough room to put my home made thin-walled socket in place.

As soon as I figure a way to 'hold the flange steady,' I'm going to heat the bejesus out of the nut. I'm hoping that the magic bit of info will be forthcoming before I get to it tomorrow.

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  #2  
Old 10-13-2013, 10:05 AM
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It sounds like you don't have access to an impact wrench. If not, try to borrow a hefty 1/2" drive impact and enough air compressor to run it long enough to bust it loose.

Good luck with it.
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  #3  
Old 10-13-2013, 11:47 AM
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I'd say an impact wrench also were it not for the fact that you have a thin wall socket on the nut.
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  #4  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:10 PM
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Don't know if this is the same flange nut as yours but this guy says Sears sells a standard socket that will fit. If so, I'd buy it and try an electric or air impact wrench. Hf has a pretty cheap 110 volt impact wrench.

Transmission Output Flange Seal Replacement
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  #5  
Old 10-13-2013, 12:43 PM
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Is this it?



I'd make a flat reasonably heavy piece of strap steel and drill a hole in the end and bolt it to one of those flange bolts and hold it against the socket like a fulcrum and use either a breaker bar like 36" (pipe extender) or an impact gun. You in the air or on jack stands?
Maybe a helper on the strap and you on the nut?

Or bolt a piece of metal to the front of the flange that would interfere with a spot on the case to lock it while turning the flange nut?
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  #6  
Old 10-13-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
It sounds like you don't have access to an impact wrench. If not, try to borrow a hefty 1/2" drive impact and enough air compressor to run it long enough to bust it loose.

Good luck with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Don't know if this is the same flange nut as yours but this guy says Sears sells a standard socket that will fit. If so, I'd buy it and try an electric or air impact wrench. Hf has a pretty cheap 110 volt impact wrench.

Transmission Output Flange Seal Replacement
I have a cheapo half inch impact that does pretty well at tightening but for some reason won't loosen worth a crap. Doesn't make sense.

Strange thing is, I also have a 110 half inch impact wrench that I completely forgot about. They say memory's the second thing to go and I forget what the first one is. I too worried about the skinnied up wall on the big socket.

I may try it if the next solution doesn't work.

That's a good link, BTW. Has a number of good bits of info. I searched but didn't find that one.
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Last edited by cmac2012; 10-13-2013 at 02:46 PM.
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  #7  
Old 10-13-2013, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
Is this it?



I'd make a flat reasonably heavy piece of strap steel and drill a hole in the end and bolt it to one of those flange bolts and hold it against the socket like a fulcrum and use either a breaker bar like 36" (pipe extender) or an impact gun. You in the air or on jack stands?
Maybe a helper on the strap and you on the nut?

Or bolt a piece of metal to the front of the flange that would interfere with a spot on the case to lock it while turning the flange nut?
It looks a lot like that only prettier.

I tried using a bit of steel through one of the flange holes and wedged up against part of the casting but the piece bent or popped out. I have a few lengths of some mild steel, 2" x 1/4", I'm thinking to cut about a foot long piece, put two holes in it, and grind away a small arc between the holes to make room for the socket. Then the piece would bear against the floor pan while I break the nut loose with my manly strength. At least that's the plan.

If that doesn't work, I'll try the electric impact. It's not like it's welded on. The Bentley manual says on install to tighten it to 125 ft.lbs., loosen it and then tighten it to 89. Of course, it's been in its current spot for 26 years.
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  #8  
Old 10-13-2013, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
It looks a lot like that only prettier.

I tried using a bit of steel through one of the flange holes and wedged up against part of the casting but the piece bent or popped out. I have a few lengths of some mild steel, 2" x 1/4", I'm thinking to cut about a foot long piece, put two holes in it, and grind away a small arc between the holes to make room for the socket. Then the piece would bear against the floor pan while I break the nut loose with my manly strength. At least that's the plan.

If that doesn't work, I'll try the electric impact. It's not like it's welded on. The Bentley manual says on install to tighten it to 125 ft.lbs., loosen it and then tighten it to 89. Of course, it's been in its current spot for 26 years.
24 hour Kroil soak...

Little heat to budge....
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2013, 04:10 AM
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An electric impact won't do it, you need air.

Even a counti-lever bar around the bell housing won't hold it, the whole assembly will rotate.

Either chisel the nut, drill, and chisel some more or use an air impact.

And no amount of "manly strength" will break it. I had a torque bar on it to measure and it maxed out a 1/2" bar with ridiculous extensions. Same with an electric impact.

The nut is of a soft material so brute force is a viable option, even the threads can be saved.

And pressure from weird angles is a non-issue, by design, unless you tried to bend the central axis (which is a strong piece of steel), the bearing could handle it. If you were to damage anything, it's the soft aluminum housing.
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  #10  
Old 10-14-2013, 05:33 AM
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I might be able to borrow a good air wrench. My neighbor at my warehouse/shop is a metal fabricator. The other day I was telling him how I couldn't break the tranny drain plug loose with my home made allen wrench - an 11/16 coupling nut ground down on one end to be 17 mm. It's always worked before but I must have tightened it too much last time - kept popping out this time. He said no, no, you need a real allen wrence - much harder steel. And, he had one tucked away somewhere! Not your everday allen wrench socket. Broke it loose no prob.

Any way, he might have one he could loan me. It's dicey pulling too hard on a wrench while under the rig (jack stands). I didn't do it, I positioned it so I could use my leg but couldn't budge it. My socket is a long 'un. If it breaks, I'll cut the busted part off and regrind.

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  #11  
Old 10-14-2013, 02:31 PM
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If all else fails I drill a hole into the nut so that I can then stick a corner of a chisel in it and hammer the bugger off.

(Chances of knackering the bearing inside is high)
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  #12  
Old 10-14-2013, 03:34 PM
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You're sure the thin metal lockplate isn't there? Any reason to believe it would have been removed? You can still see the flats of the nut with it in place, and it makes it hard to fit in anything other than a REALLY thin socket, and of course, it makes it about impossible to turn. I'd be double checking for the lockplate, and then checking again. It's about the only reason I've ever seen one of these that difficult to remove, and we see it in approx. half of the DIY cases.

MV
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  #13  
Old 10-14-2013, 05:38 PM
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The apparent absence of a lockplate buggered me also.

Here are some pics. I see what looks like a pan washer under the nut. Nowhere do I see any metal bent over or locking the nut in place. And there is no apparent geometric lock-in of the washer to anything around it.





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Last edited by cmac2012; 10-14-2013 at 05:52 PM.
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  #14  
Old 10-14-2013, 05:52 PM
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Left hand thread??
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  #15  
Old 10-14-2013, 06:04 PM
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...like a shield of steel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry View Post
Left hand thread??
Hasn't that got something to do with being north or south of the equator?

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