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  #1  
Old 03-28-2002, 08:27 AM
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Angry Can you believe an MB dealer ripped me off?

Whithout getting too specific, here's the story:
I ordered a small plastic part from my local dealer in Macon, Ga. I had to give them a credit card number in order to get them to order it. Quoted price $5.83. Waited three days for it and get a call it has arrived. Drive 65 miles to pick up and am told it will be $27.50!! Excuse me??? I gasp!! "That's right, Mercedes has superceded that part you ordered with this one and it is $27.50", I am told. "I'm not paying that I said". "You already have she says, we billed your card". To make a long story short, I ended up paying $17.74 for it but that kind of thing just pisses me off. I'm taking them off my Christmas card list!!!

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  #2  
Old 03-28-2002, 08:39 AM
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I believe it.

Actually I would be surprised if MB dealers do not rip you off. They are in the business to rip customers off. Partly to be blamed are the customers themselves.

Many MB owners just gave the dealer the car and told them "fix it". They would be glad to pay the $3,000 repair bill for some minor work on the car without even questioning what the dealer did.
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  #3  
Old 03-28-2002, 11:02 AM
Ali Al-Chalabi's Avatar
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What gives them the right to charge $27.50 without even telling you?? They must think that all of their customers are made up of an endless supply of financial resources.
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  #4  
Old 03-28-2002, 11:11 AM
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I think it's called the element of surprize. It works well in love and war but it's the last thing I would expect from a prestigeous company that depends on customer dollars. I know my company wouldn't allow it!
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  #5  
Old 03-28-2002, 02:07 PM
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All the more reason to use partsshop. Just what part was this?
It's a piece of plastic for your W124, just what did they improve?

Kuan
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  #6  
Old 03-28-2002, 02:26 PM
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It was the wear surface on the timing chain tensioner rail. Fastlane and all the other interface net stores only sell the entire rail. I gave the part number to the parts clerk and she looked it up on microfiche. Said it was good part number and could be ordered. When I went to pick it up MB had sent the entire rail. The old bait and switch. I told her I could buy it for seventeen bucks off the net and she could keep it and credit my account. She said she would sell it "wholesale" to me for $17, which is what Fastlane charges. I didn't lose anything but I felt like I had been mislead. If they can't order this part correctly can you trust them to put in an airbag or a child safety seat anchor?
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  #7  
Old 03-28-2002, 04:00 PM
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captain unfurl your cape fly over to the dealership and with your lazer vision turn them to dust.
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  #8  
Old 03-28-2002, 04:22 PM
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Just for that I'm not gonna buy that white S600 they have. So there!!! That'll teach um!!
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  #9  
Old 03-28-2002, 07:22 PM
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The Mercedes dealership in my area ignores me when I pull up in my lowly '82 300SD. Thats what got me to buying online in the first place. Wonder what the "home office would think if the knew the behavior of these franchises?
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  #10  
Old 03-28-2002, 07:41 PM
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Wait a minute Capt'n. Next time you are there to pick up some parts tell the woman at the parts counter you are a friend of mine and that you want the same prices she gives me. I have a pretty good relationship with them and always get a good discount without having to ask (I still purchase the big stuff from places like partsshop.com though). Anyway, ask to talk to David if you have any problems. The folks at the parts counter at this particular dealership are good people once you get to know them.
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  #11  
Old 03-28-2002, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Actually I would be surprised if MB dealers do not rip you off. They are in the business to rip customers off.


And I bet that everyone in your profession is perfect.
I would love to see your proof of this assinine allegation.

To Muskie and others;
That is how the flat rate, also referred to as commission, system works.
If a tech completes a quoted 2hr job in 1hr he or she gets paid 2 hrs and you are billed for 2 hrs. Customers usually are not informed on how much time it actually took to do the repair for obvious reasons. This system is supposed to give the mechanic incentive to hustle.
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  #12  
Old 03-29-2002, 08:11 AM
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<<
And I bet that everyone in your profession is perfect.
>>

Gladly my profession does not involve $ at all. At least I do not deal with $ when it comes to my "customers". My "customers" would be extremely happy if they just pay someone (not me) and then I work "for" them as little as possible. Just the opposite of the mechanic-car owner situation. I have direct proof of it. I was sick for two days in the hospital two weeks ago and my "customers" were happy. Happy not because I was sick, happy because I did not work "for" them. You probably can guess which profession I am in now because all of us have had this type of experience. How much I work has no relation whatsoever to my pay. It is purely out of my own integrity and conscience. I have no bonus no flat rate hustle, nothing.

<<
I would love to see your proof of this assinine allegation.

To Muskie and others; That is how the flat rate, also referred to as commission, system works.
If a tech completes a quoted 2hr job in 1hr he or she gets paid 2 hrs and you are billed for 2 hrs. Customers usually are not informed on how much time it actually took to do the repair for obvious reasons. This system is supposed to give the mechanic incentive to hustle.
>>

You just provided proof of my "assinine" allegation.

If a DIYer can perform a water pump R&R in 2 hours on a M103 in W201 (after only one previous try), you tell me when a dealer bills 7.3 hours (flat rate) is to give the mechanic incentive to hustle? This is to rip customer off, sir. LOL. Would you go to a surgeon working in a hospital that give surgeons incentive to hustle?

If all dealers do that (they do do that because of flat rate), then is my allegation, assinine or not, true?

I do not know if you work in a dealership or in an independent shop. How long does it take you to do a water pumo R&R in a M103 in W201? How many hours does your dealership or shop or you (if you are the owner) charge?

You probably have heard that a Mercedes is more expensive to maintain and repair. Many of us know that Mercedes parts do not necessary cost more than Honda, Toyota, VW parts, etc. So why cost more to maintain? It is in the labors. Mercedes flat rate is higher than most other cars but the technicians can do the job in the same time just like on other cars.

A variation of this rip off is to give incorrect or wrong diagnosis (either intentionally or incompetently) leading to unnecessary and expensive "repairs". Intentional mis-diagnose is obviously a rip-off. Incompetent mis-diagnose is rip-off as well because incompetent technician should not be asking the $80 - $120 per hour dealer labor rate.

There was just a thread last night by Ricali. His 95 E300D won't start. The Mercedes "experts" wanted to "fix" his ASD, starter, and gauges. He did not let them rip him off by jumping the starter solenoid and driving the car home. He then discovered it was caused by a blown $0.25 fuse.

Examples like this are in every dealerships and occur everyday. The saddest thing of all this is that the customers who were ripped off usually did not know they were ripped off. Here is a typical one:

Customer: "Just fix it."
Dealer: "Sure, we will."

Two hours later.

Customer: "How much was the damage?"
Dealer: "Oh. Let's see. It comes out to $2,350,97."
Customer: "What was wrong?"
Dealer: "There was something wrong with the brake disc and a few other things."
Customer: "Thank you for the fast and excellent service. I feel safe again in my proud Mercedes."
Dealer: "See you in the near future." (I really love to see you again!)

I saw this type of things happening in my 87 300TD by studying the service records. "Poor" lady, not in terms of $, but in terms of rip-off (the previous owner).

Last edited by loubapache; 03-29-2002 at 09:20 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-31-2002, 11:22 PM
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If anyone pays 7.3 hours labor to do a 103 water pump then that is their fault.
Billing time that I can recall for a 103 water pump is somewhere between 3-4 hrs. Hustling I can do one in about an hour. Taking my time it will take me about 2 hrs.

It was the public that created the flat rate monster and many other flaws in our profession. How? Customers always want their car done yesterday no matter what is wrong with it. Then they don't want to pay for it. I don't know where you reside but your allegations still do not hold water IMO. Surely you could not have visited every single shop in the US to form this conclusion.
I have had money taken out of my pocket way too many times by whiny, *****y customers. Example (true situation); Customer brings his MB in for the "going out of warranty blues." Customer has a laundry list. I dutifully check his list and attempt to duplicate his complaints. After 1 and 1/2 hours I find no validity in his complaints. The result: Because I did not find any problems with his car, therfore not installing any parts, and the car was still under warranty I did not get paid one penny for that 1.5 hrs I spent trying to diagnose his complaints. Who was ripped off? The customer? I think not! Think I deserved that? Think I made up for the loss some other way? Wrong again. Money lost is lost forever.

While I was working a our local dealer MB began having some of its best sales in years. New models were coming out and were sold as soon as they hit the dealer lot. During this time I noticed a disturbing trend. MB is and will continue to build cheaper cars to cater to those who otherwise cannot afford them. I don't comdenm them for this, afterall they are in business to make a profit. The problem is that alot of these new MB owners can't afford the upkeep of their car. The result; MB rolls out service agreements during the warranty period similar to some other auto makers. What happens? MB cuts the flat rate to save money. Instead of getting paid 1 hour to do a 7500 mile service the tech now gets four- tenths of an hour to do the same amount of work.

There are two major factors in mis-diagnosis; a) lack of experience, b) lack of proper test equipment.

BTW, I have probably not required your services since I can't figure what you do for a living.
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2002, 07:39 AM
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<<
If anyone pays 7.3 hours labor to do a 103 water pump then that is their fault.

Billing time that I can recall for a 103 water pump is somewhere between 3-4 hrs. Hustling I can do one in about an hour. Taking my time it will take me about 2 hrs.
>>

For out of warranty repairs, I believe below are the accurate (plus or minus half hour) flat rate (Alldata) on the water pump job with the M103 motor.

5.3 hr for W124

6.3 for W201
(sorry I quoted 7.3 earlier as I did not remember the exact number accurately)

Now if you do warranty repairs, then MB pushes it lower as they know well that it does not take that long to do it.

I am very surprised that MB does not pay a penny to you when you check for problems on a car that is still under warranty.

<<
It was the public that created the flat rate monster and many other flaws in our profession.
>>

I have no doubt that you are correct on this. But I also have no doubt that the public had no say in determining the 5.3 and 6.3 hours to replace the water pump on the M103 in W124 and W201, respectively. Someday, Consumer Report will probably hire a mechanic of AVERAGE experience and skill to replace the water pumps and then publish the result that the flat rates are grossly over-inflated numbers for the jobs.

<<
Surely you could not have visited every single shop in the US to form this conclusion.
>>
Of course not. If one has to visit each and every dealership to make a statement about dealership in general, no one can. Maybe I should preface my "allegation" with "in general,...".

Even though this mechanic and dealership profession was ranked quite low (in a public survey a couple years ago) in terms of trustworthy and honesty, there are (no doubt) excellent, trustworth, and honest mechanics. I have no doubt that Ronnie, Steve, Gilly, and you are excellent, trustworth, and honest mechanics. The Indie I go to is an excellent, trustworth, and honest mechanic. One time he thought my flex disc was bad and replaced it. It turned out it was not the problem. Guess what he did? He only charged me for the parts. No labor. It was his fault (in his language) so he did not charge me for the labor. However, in every dealership, I am sure there are other kind of mechanics and also the Service Adiviser.

<<
There are two major factors in mis-diagnosis; a) lack of experience, b) lack of proper test equipment.
>>

But a $80 - $120 hour mechanic should have experience. Inexperienced mechanic should not command that high labor rate. A $80 - $120 hour mechanic working in a MB dealership should have proper test equipment. Mechanic and dealership with no proper test equipment should not command that high labor rate. Fair?

Last edited by loubapache; 04-01-2002 at 08:14 AM.
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  #15  
Old 04-01-2002, 04:44 PM
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I didn't mean to start any trouble so you guys shake hands and be friends! I would like to pose another question though. How many owners take their cars back to dealers for repair once the warranty expires? I would say not the majority. The existence of shops like MB Autowerks should be a testiment to that. I worked in a Ford dealership once and everybody in town would fix a car cheaper than us. But even back then, it was almost impossible for a mechanic to beat the flat rate. They only gave you six hours to rebuild an entire engine!! So where did the money go? The mechanics sure as heck didn't get it.

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