Bible: Fiction, Non Fiction, Not Going There? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MTI · #16 11-27-2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Clk Man

The Bible is the Holy Word of God. You will find that to be true soon enough my friend, trust me on this one.

I had no idea you knew how to swear in Yiddish.

The Clk Man · #17 11-27-2013, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

I had no idea you knew how to swear in Yiddish.

I get that from my mother's side, thanks for noticing.

aklim · #18 11-27-2013, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.C.

So, if a crazy person writes a book about an encounter with polka-dot-pant-wearing aliens from the planet Zoopta, and believes all that he is saying is true, such a book should be in the Non-Fiction section.

According to the definition, yes. In this case, I assume the author/authors THINK it is real.

elchivito · #19 11-27-2013, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Clk Man

The Bible is the Holy Word of God. You will find that to be true soon enough my friend, trust me on this one.

Just for clarity, do you believe the bible is the actual, you know, out of god's mouth word? Every word in it?

If so, which version?

Serious question. I'd really like to know.

Air&Road · #20 11-27-2013, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Is this trolling, or what?

Yeah, he has about a half dozen lines that he's dropped in the water tonight. I can't imagine which particular fish he's trying to get to bite the hook.

MS Fowler · #21 11-27-2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Murrell

A stated above, one chooses what they wish to believe.

Looking at it as an historical document, I would be concerned about all of the denominational rework...Catholic, Protestant, ect. - each with their own version.

I visited a place in Orlando Florida about 10 yrs. ago called the Holy Land Experience. On that property was a building that dealt with the history of the bible. The book has been rewritten countless times.

I would wonder for the sake of curiosity if an original exists somewhere and if so, how would we know this with certainty.

Think of all of the history books you may have read whose facts in some cases were completely botched; many written not all that long after the event(s) being reviewed. Now think of the bibles age and all of the rewrites it's been through.

I'm not suggesting its premise is invalid, just wonder how much of it has been twisted for the sake of all the secular groups that use it as a basis for their doctrine.

There may be grounds for doubting the historicity of the Bible, but there is absolutely no doubting the that the text itself has been correctly transmitted for generations. The Dead Sea Scrolls showed no significant variants compared to the Jewish manuscripts then in use. The Greek of the New Testament is also well documented to be accurate---the extremely few variant readings are of no serious consequence.
Compared to the Bible, the other literature from the ancient world are rare, with few copies.

greazzer · #22 11-27-2013, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Clk Man

The Bible is the Holy Word of God. You will find that to be true soon enough my friend, trust me on this one.

Amen, and every knee shall bow.

martureo · #23 11-27-2013, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idle

Mr. Murrell has hit upon an important point when he brings up the rewriting of the Bible. The problems started with the first translation from the original Greek as the translation was only as good as those doing the translating.

I don't think Murrell is well educated in the manner. It sounds from both his and your characterization as if there was a "first" translation and all others have somehow come down from that one.

The NT was written in Koine Greek (common tongue, not literary Classical Greek). It was distributed across the Mediterranean by method of copying by amateurs for the first ~300 years (as it was quite hard to get a professional scribe since Christianity was illegal and the vast majority of Christians were poor/slaves). Copying produced translations into various other tongues, including Coptic, Latin, Sahidic, Aramaic and Old Church Slavonic.

Quote:

Those translators were also working from the copies they had to work with, and those were copies of copies. Older original versions have since been found and more scientific study has found errors in the original translations, so is the current version, or versions, correct? I doubt we will ever know.

If you're talking about modern translations (as it appears that Murrell) is speaking of, then it is fair to say that the translation is only as good as the manuscripts which the translators have available. The KJV was an excellent translation for what it was, as is the NASB today.

The copies of copies line is simply a reference to Bart Ehrman, a textual critic. Even he, one of the most skeptical persons in the field of NT textual transmission admits that we know what the NT reads and that the variants which are still argued over today are insignificant. And to say that we have no little to no confidence in what the NT read originally is to disregard any document written before 1600 by the same measure.

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Some of the stories can be checked against historical records so we can know that events took place that are described, but then the question arises about the description itself and who did the original story.

Since the greater part of the Old Testament was transmitted orally for centuries prior to being written it is impossible to find the "author".

Quote:

Some parts of the Old Testament are clearly meant to convey a lesson with a story. There is wisdom in the tale, but did the tale take place with 100% accuracy? Did Abraham actually tell a wealthy man the chasm between the man and God, the chasm so deep the man could not cross it and enter Heaven, was created by the man himself since the man knew the lessons of the Prophets and chose to ignore them, or is this story told to make the reader understand that past wisdom is valuable and you will be a better person if you live your life according to the teachings of God's Commandments?

The problem in the Costco incident is not with the Bible. It is with someones desire to not bother to set-up more than two book sections.

martureo · #24 11-27-2013, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Murrell

The book has been rewritten countless times....

Think of all of the history books you may have read whose facts in some cases were completely botched; many written not all that long after the event(s) being reviewed. Now think of the bibles age and all of the rewrites it's been through.

I'm not suggesting its premise is invalid, just wonder how much of it has been twisted for the sake of all the secular groups that use it as a basis for their doctrine.

Do you have any evidence for "rewriting"?

Or are you just presenting assertions as facts?

t walgamuth · #25 11-27-2013, 09:20 PM

I believe there is a difference between rewriting and translating into another language.

Many of the areas of disagreement between what is written and what may be catagorized as scientifically impossible today are because the concepts were unknown when the texts were written.

The Clk Man · #26 11-27-2013, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Just for clarity, do you believe the bible is the actual, you know, out of god's mouth word? Every word in it?

If so, which version?

Serious question. I'd really like to know.

The Bible is the inspired Word of God. I prefer the King James Version.

KarTek · #27 11-27-2013, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Clk Man

The Bible is the inspired Word of God. I prefer the King James Version.

So God speaks to you in King James english?

MTI · #28 11-27-2013, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Clk Man

The Bible is the inspired Word of God. I prefer the King James Version.

What is your second favorite Version?

Heres a patial list of just the English translations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Bible_translations

Mike Murrell · #29 11-27-2013, 10:55 PM

Without question, I am no bible scholar.

Perhaps "rewriting" is the wrong choice of words.

My opinions are based on what I saw in the Bible Room at the Holy Land Experience - Orlando, Florida. Perhaps "translated" is a better word.

But, the translation occurred many times.

In the end, I've always been suspicious that some groups rewrote/reworded - call it whatever you like, to suit their needs.

I could be wrong; then again, how many of us today were around to read the first publication?

MTI · #30 11-27-2013, 11:03 PM

Who would have the hubris to alter the word of a deity?

Mel Brooks