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  #16  
Old 11-29-2013, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
When I first glanced at the thread title, my mind immediately jumped to 'New slant... 6 engine....' wish there was. Loved the old slant 6.

Plymouth/Dodge slant 6s were amongst the most reliable engines ever built.

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  #17  
Old 11-29-2013, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Right. Is someone merely being in your yard (as opposed to trying to break into your house) good enough cause to shoot at them? What if it were a healthy person who didn't understand English but was seeking help, or someone running from an assault?
This has happened before. A Soldier came Home from Vietnam and wanted to surprise His Parents and did not notify them.
His Father shot Him as He was trying to get into the House through an open Window.
In this case the Soldier was at fault.

Out here in CA the Law allows People to come to your Front Door for legitimate reasons.
If they are somewhere else on Your property there is gray area in the law.

If you come to someone's front door and are agitated, panicky and Tongue Tied; even if for a good reason; you are leaving it up to the Person behind the Door to decide if you are a threat to them or not.

Suppose I was in a Car accident and had no Cell Phone and My Family is trapped in a Burning Car. I run over to the closest House and pound on the door but no one answers.
I see a Telephone on a Table inside of the House so I bust a Window so I can get in to get at the Phone.
In the process the Home Owner Shoots Me because He thinks I am breaking into His/Her House.

Now, let us change the story a little but instead it is a real Burglar that breaks the Window. He confronts the Homeowner and gives Him a BS story that He was just in a Traffic Accident. The armed Homeowner accepts the story and lets His guard down and gets His ass kicked or dies.
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  #18  
Old 11-29-2013, 03:37 PM
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There's a big gap between what the law permits and what's morally OK to do. Shooting someone in your backyard that's not obviously armed or breaking into your property does not fall under the latter category, IMHO.
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  #19  
Old 11-29-2013, 03:39 PM
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What is clear to Me is that People under stress do not have the same thought process as they do when not stressed.

The next thing is that People under stress react differently.

As the other member said we come in after the fact and point out the mistakes.
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  #20  
Old 11-29-2013, 03:52 PM
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What is clear to Me is that People under stress do not have the same thought process as they do when not stressed.
If people mis-react under stress to that extent, they shouldn't own firearms. Short of someone breaking into my home or overtly threatening myself or my family with violence, I have no interest in EVER using (or even brandishing) a deadly weapon on another human being.

If I lived out in the country and saw someone in my back yard at 4 am, I might sleep with a gun close at hand (assuming I owned out), but no way would I fire a weapon at someone whose intentions are not clear to me. Doing so seems like going for a drive at 60 mph with no headlights along an unlit road at night.
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  #21  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
There's a big gap between what the law permits and what's morally OK to do. Shooting someone in your backyard that's not obviously armed or breaking into your property does not fall under the latter category, IMHO.
Monday Morning Quarterbacking is easy but again, it is dark out there. Who knows who or what is out there? It might be a harmless person or a raving lunatic pushing a ruse to get in. Who wants to be sure the hard way?
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  #22  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:08 PM
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Monday Morning Quarterbacking is easy but again, it is dark out there. Who knows who or what is out there? It might be a harmless person or a raving lunatic pushing a ruse to get in. Who wants to be sure the hard way?
So, if you're worried ... DON'T LET THEM IN! Why fire a gun at someone whose intentions are unclear?
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  #23  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
If people mis-react under stress to that extent, they shouldn't own firearms. Short of someone breaking into my home or overtly threatening myself or my family with violence, I have no interest in EVER using (or even brandishing) a deadly weapon on another human being.

If I lived out in the country and saw someone in my back yard at 4 am, I might sleep with a gun close at hand (assuming I owned out), but no way would I fire a weapon at someone whose intentions are not clear to me. Doing so seems like going for a drive at 60 mph with no headlights along an unlit road at night.
Perhaps they should call you? Same as calling the cops. It is an after the fact thing. The problem is what to do NOW not tomorrow. How do you determine that this is not some robber or lunatic? Is there a way to quickly determine which way? Do they have a stamp on their head that says "harmless" or "danger"? Do you want to take the risk of being wrong? Maybe you should but not everybody wants to. What you are asking is that I wait till it is possibly too late to do anything.

But can one afford to wait till he has his hands round your neck? I wouldn't. If he advances towards me, I'm not going to wait till he identifies himself as "friend or foe".
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  #24  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
So, if you're worried ... DON'T LET THEM IN! Why fire a gun at someone whose intentions are unclear?
You think this is the supposed tale of Dracula who cannot enter a locked facility? You sure he cannot bust in? Oh wait, the cops YOU HAVE ALWAYS LOOKED DOWN ON will come to your rescue.
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  #25  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:15 PM
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If he starts busting in, THEN you resort to firearms. Till then, why not observe cautiously?
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  #26  
Old 11-29-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
If he starts busting in, THEN you resort to firearms. Till then, why not observe cautiously?
Again, if you want to wait till it is there and think you are fast and good enough to repel the threat AND you are, fine. Why should others risk their lives for someone else? NFW would I ask you to stick your neck out so why would you ask me to stick mine out for you? There might be times that a second more or less could mean I walk or I lie there. Why wouldn't I want every opportunity to stay alive? Who are you to me?
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  #27  
Old 11-29-2013, 06:49 PM
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Neither of your examples have anything to do with the SYG laws. They are covered by the Castle doctrine. SYG has to do with being out in a public place. Such as being in a park where you see a gun man in the distance. With SYG you can stand your ground and kill the person instead of turning and seeking cover or leavjng the area.
Both of my examples do fall under the law, but stand your ground also covers public places as well.

Stand your ground has nothing to do with range, if you pop someone far off your still in trouble. Must be an imminent threat.

They allow people who have legit shoots to not lose everything defending it.
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  #28  
Old 11-29-2013, 06:50 PM
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Stand-your-ground has never been necessary in that type of case. The parent in your scenario has always had the right to kill a robber trying to get into his or her kids' room.Same as the first example. Has nothing to do with the recent stand-your-ground laws.I don't know what you mean by "many," but I'm guessing that the pain wrongfully inflicted on those people is cummulatively less than the pain wrongfully inflicted on and by people who use deadly force when other means of defense were available.Well, I think cases where SYG served a beneficial purpose are exceedingly rare. So, without more, my "exceedingly rare" cancels out yours. It's a tie.

These people are unimpressed with SYG: Stand your ground law, Trayvon Martin and a shocking legacy | Tampa Bay Times

YMMV.

It does matter in those cases, people have gotten their lives ruined in states without them. You will win the case but it will cost you $100k or more to do it.
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  #29  
Old 11-29-2013, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
It does matter in those cases, people have gotten their lives ruined in states without them. You will win the case but it will cost you $100k or more to do it.
solution isn't necessarily SYG laws, but "loser pays attorney fees" in criminal cases.
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  #30  
Old 11-29-2013, 07:00 PM
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SYG's prevent DA's from ever bringing these to court.

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