Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-30-2013, 01:08 PM
Mölyapina's Avatar
User title not in use
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Posts: 4,367
What determines manual shifter feel?

Shifting the Corolla sometimes can feel like an awfully close approximation of slogging through mud. I've noticed that Hondas and Acuras have much crisper, lighter shifters, so I was looking at them in the junkyard this morning... they look to be close enough to the Corolla's to morealess bolt in with some minor redrilling... my question is: how big a role do you think the shifter plays in the shifter feel? My gut says that it would make a difference, but my most persuasive reason for thinking so is that I assume that the two trannies would be similar enough that they themselves would not contribute to a dramatically different feel.

Also, it was in the low teens when I went to the yard this morning, and after I started the Corolla I tried to move it into neutral only to discover it wouldn't come out of first... I then gave it a hard jerk, and it grunted out... I then grunted it through the rest of the gears and realized that the transmission fluid must be really thick (75W-90)! When I let out the clutch in neutral, the car dropped a good 600 RPM (from 2000 to 1400). Wow! Never experienced that before...

__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-30-2013, 01:12 PM
kmaysob's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mesa az
Posts: 1,673
change the gear oil to synthetic
__________________
have no worries.....President Obama swears "If you like your gun, you can keep it
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-30-2013, 01:21 PM
Mölyapina's Avatar
User title not in use
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Posts: 4,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmaysob View Post
change the gear oil to synthetic
It is synthetic. These cars are just known for harboring uninspiring shifters... long, imprecise throws when compared to the Honda.
__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-30-2013, 01:31 PM
JB3 JB3 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 6,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna View Post
It is synthetic. These cars are just known for harboring uninspiring shifters... long, imprecise throws when compared to the Honda.
making a shifter from one manufacturer, and a transmission from another work as a cohesive unit will be a nightmare if its even possible. They may have entirely different actions to move between gears.

Find out of this is a rod type shifter arrangement, or a cable shifter arrangement, ect. You could have worn linkage bushings, or a rusty cable sheathing slowing down the action depending on the design.

if its super cold, its going to be tough anyway if its got regular gear oil in there. This model transmission doesn't use ATF or synchromesh fluid?
__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-30-2013, 02:23 PM
Mölyapina's Avatar
User title not in use
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Posts: 4,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
making a shifter from one manufacturer, and a transmission from another work as a cohesive unit will be a nightmare if its even possible. They may have entirely different actions to move between gears.

Find out of this is a rod type shifter arrangement, or a cable shifter arrangement, ect. You could have worn linkage bushings, or a rusty cable sheathing slowing down the action depending on the design.

if its super cold, its going to be tough anyway if its got regular gear oil in there. This model transmission doesn't use ATF or synchromesh fluid?
No, I don't think it's a problem in the shifting mechanism. I've shifted new Toyotas and seen other owners write that the Toyota manuals are just kind of uninspiring. After driving a Honda Accord manual, I've wondered if I could at least partially get the much lighter, sharper feel of the Honda into this car... both cars are cable-shifted FWD 5-speeds in the familiar 1-3-5, 2-4-R pattern. I'll go back to the yard next weekend and pull the shifter to see what it looks like underneath compared to the Corolla shifter... it's a large yard, so there are many generations of Hondas and with 5-speeds to choose from. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether the shifter will actually make a big difference. I'm thinking it'll have a big enough influence that I'll at least notice something, but we'll see... if they let me out of the yard with it for $20, I'll definitely get it.

I changed the fluid 15,000 miles ago to Mobil1 Synthetic 75W-90, so that should not be affecting shifter feel much... although in retrospect I wish I'd used Redline. I want to find some 75W-90 to stick outside in really cold weather to see how much it thickens .
__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-30-2013, 03:47 PM
kmaysob's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mesa az
Posts: 1,673
I would bet there is a ricer replacement that would greatly improve it.however the sticking is cold gear oil
__________________
have no worries.....President Obama swears "If you like your gun, you can keep it
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-30-2013, 03:50 PM
kmaysob's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mesa az
Posts: 1,673
Client Validation
__________________
have no worries.....President Obama swears "If you like your gun, you can keep it
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-30-2013, 04:07 PM
Mölyapina's Avatar
User title not in use
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Posts: 4,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmaysob View Post
I would bet there is a ricer replacement that would greatly improve it.however the sticking is cold gear oil
Oh, totally. I just mentioned the sticking as an aside -- should have made that clearer. It was something cool to boast about -- "Oh yeah? Well, it was SO cold at my place that the car was stuck in gear!"

Oh, and no ricer mods on this car -- right now, it is totally stock, with this, a center-rear headrest, and fog lights currently being the only contemplated mods. It's very tasteful .
__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-30-2013, 04:21 PM
Inna-propriate-da-vida
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna View Post
Oh, totally. I just mentioned the sticking as an aside -- should have made that clearer. It was something cool to boast about -- "Oh yeah? Well, it was SO cold at my place that the car was stuck in gear!"

Oh, and no ricer mods on this car -- right now, it is totally stock, with this, a center-rear headrest, and fog lights currently being the only contemplated mods. It's very tasteful .
Sure... I saw your car down at the Starbucks...

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-30-2013, 04:34 PM
kmaysob's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: mesa az
Posts: 1,673
Damn kids these days
__________________
have no worries.....President Obama swears "If you like your gun, you can keep it
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-30-2013, 04:47 PM
Mölyapina's Avatar
User title not in use
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Posts: 4,367
Darn it, cmb, you said you'd never show that picture to anyone!

(kmaysbob -- just saw your short-throw shifter link -- interesting. But $166? Yikes! I'll see if I can't find something in the yard... maybe someday I could get the real McCoy.)
__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-30-2013, 05:00 PM
SwampYankee's Avatar
New England Hick
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CT
Posts: 1,501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna View Post
Darn it, cmb, you said you'd never show that picture to anyone!

(kmaysbob -- just saw your short-throw shifter link -- interesting. But $166? Yikes! I'll see if I can't find something in the yard... maybe someday I could get the real McCoy.)
$166 will likely seem cheap once you start factoring in the cost of an unknown junkyard tranny + your time, effort and general richarding around with it trying to make it work. Some new, hi-performance poly bushings might tights things up a bit
__________________

1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-30-2013, 05:06 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 35,525
The front drive cars have cable actuated shifters remotely mounted from the tranny. The mercedes have remote shifters operated by cables. The Miata and other sports cars have shifters that are built into the tranny like a truck tranny more or less. The cable is the least positive solution and the built in shifter is the most positive.

Porsches have rear mounted trannies but the shifting is i believe by a rod instead of multiple rods so it has a pretty good feel to it.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-30-2013, 05:26 PM
Mölyapina's Avatar
User title not in use
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Posts: 4,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
$166 will likely seem cheap once you start factoring in the cost of an unknown junkyard tranny + your time, effort and general richarding around with it trying to make it work. Some new, hi-performance poly bushings might tights things up a bit
Oh no no, I'd just be swapping in the shifter assembly. This bit:



They can keep the tranny .
__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-01-2013, 12:41 AM
Mike Murrell's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,574
Good synchronizers and clutch.

__________________
Mike Murrell
1991 300-SEL - Model 126
M103 - SOHC
"Fräulein"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page