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  #1  
Old 12-06-2013, 11:16 PM
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Shanghai smog ...

Something to think about when shopping for the holidays. Buy nothing from them this season, kick their economy back into the third-world until they get their environmental act together.

Shanghai's Choking Smog Registers 'Beyond Index' : The Two-Way : NPR

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Old 12-06-2013, 11:40 PM
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Just today someone on this board called the EPA an unnecessary agency...
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Old 12-07-2013, 02:10 AM
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I can remember seeing smog in LA that nearly reached this level in the 60's. Sometimes your car would cut out due to a lack of oxygen to burn.

And the smog in Dallas in the middle 60's hung over the city like a purple cloud.

But the smog in China in question appears to be from coal burning. I cannot find any articles that seem to know the source of the smog, but if anyone knows I would find the information interesting.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Jorn View Post
Just today someone on this board called the EPA an unnecessary agency...
It was quite necessary at one time. Without it, we may have still been driving cars with points and carburetors. Now, however, it has become just another out-of-bounds government agency.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:11 AM
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It was quite necessary at one time. Without it, we may have still been driving cars with points and carburetors. Now, however, it has become just another out-of-bounds government agency.
Yeah and so we should just get rid of it altogether. The sources of pollution have all been controlled and now wouldn't dare go back to their former ways of easy and cheap production. They'll all keep spending the additional resources required to protect the environment because they are nice people who want to do good. The mean people who used to make our air and water look like China's does now have all moved there.
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:00 PM
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It was quite necessary at one time. Without it, we may have still been driving cars with points and carburetors. Now, however, it has become just another out-of-bounds government agency.
...and going back too Shanghai sky lines?
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:51 PM
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It was quite necessary at one time. Without it, we may have still been driving cars with points and carburetors. Now, however, it has become just another out-of-bounds government agency.
yes
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:55 PM
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It was quite necessary at one time. Without it, we may have still been driving cars with points and carburetors. Now, however, it has become just another out-of-bounds government agency.
Do you really want fuel-injected cars to be tuned for max power without regard for tailpipe emissions? Do you really want big corporations polluting rivers and daring the public to sue them (any suit would take a few years to wind its way through the courts before an injunction or judgement becomes permanent)? How about coal power plants without even lip-service to "clean coal"?

The EPA may need reform in certain areas, but it's still very needed.
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Old 12-07-2013, 02:05 PM
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Nostalgia is a *****. Los Angeles 1979.

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Old 12-07-2013, 05:45 PM
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It's something of a conundrum. The US got rich enough that it could decide it wanted a clean environment. Understandable, but the downside is that we can no longer make what we need. So we have others make it for us so that they can deal with the unpleasant effects. Cousin of mine is a frequent visitor to Hefei, for business and he describes it as one of the most ghastly places he's ever had to experience. Of course one of the effects of sending all out manufacturing jobs overseas is our unemployment numbers are almost unprecedented and our economy is in the toilet. One of the side effects of which is research into viable "clean energy" is stalled.

- Peter.
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Old 12-07-2013, 06:01 PM
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Oh, but we can make what we need, at greater cost. Would it kill us to only buy one iPhone every 3 years, or own a flat-screen for 10-15 years before we replace it? It's a different consumption model, but one that was pretty common till the mid 90s.

(Ironically, we keep our electronics for shorter time but keep our cars longer )
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:55 PM
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Oh, but we can make what we need, at greater cost.
Not at a cost anyone in this country will accept. Or at least not enough to be a viable model.

- Peter.
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81 240D stick. 316000 miles at purchase. 342000 now
2000 GMC Sonoma
Formerly...
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles. Deceased Jan 08
1984 123 200
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1971 108 280S
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  #13  
Old 12-08-2013, 12:29 AM
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Oh, but we can make what we need, at greater cost. Would it kill us to only buy one iPhone every 3 years, or own a flat-screen for 10-15 years before we replace it? It's a different consumption model, but one that was pretty common till the mid 90s.

(Ironically, we keep our electronics for shorter time but keep our cars longer )
i cant seem to get a phone to hold together more than 2 years. as far as my tv, i would love to own it 15 years. i somehow doubt it will last that long. i do still have my old sony i bought when i was 16 in my bedroom however
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:35 AM
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My car is almost 25 years old, not to bad.
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  #15  
Old 12-08-2013, 06:21 AM
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My only television is a 15 year old Sony Wega that refuses to die. I retired my 03 PowerBook G4 17in. yesterday. It'll still do backup duty now and then and is by no means dead.
Phone? It's around here. Someplace.

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