I go the hospital and tell them I am uninsured and they treat me. I'm an average guy with average bills and obligations. They send me a bill for $89,000 for treatment rendered. Service was great. No complaints. Do they really think I am going to pay them $90k? Hell, I would wager a majority of the US population wold have to pay out the $5k over a few years.

Were they to send me a bill for $90k I'd send it back with a thank you for your service but you're not going to get that from me.

So what is that price for? I don't imagine I would be alone in my response. So what's the point. Might as well send me a bill for $1 million for all the good it will do them. I don't get it.

Snake Bite

Before my wife and I get married she fainted at a patients house. She was uninsured and took an ambulance ride to the local hospital. She got a bill for a little shy of $1k. I thought she was joking till I saw the bill (wish I would have kept it). Called to see if they wanted to negotiate. It was a city ambulance and they said no. That was the fee. I said OK. So they got nothing.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Well, what would you do if you had a customer that didn't pay a bill for services rendered?

They don't expect $90k. Generally, self-paid medical treatment is exorbitantly priced, but also quite negotiable. This being said, even the $20k that they ultimately got is ridiculous.

This kind of sh1+ is a strong argument for national level health insurance that at least covers emergency treatment anywhere within the US for all citizens. B... but ... death panels. Right? Right? If you're worried about that, nothing would stop you from buying ADDITIONAL private insurance.

In the recent TX case involving the death of a pregnant woman who was placed on ICU life support . . . the hospital hasn't decided who is going to be charged the bill, which must be incredible, for the care.

If the bill for services incurred during an emergency (say charging $5000 to change an alternator when a hurricane is bearing down on your city) and is grossly out of line with normal costs, you'd likely be subject to lawsuits under gouging laws.

I had a screw up a couple of years ago on some routine bloodwork. Doc had in-house blood services that were performed by a lab that wasn't in my network. Insurance denied it and I got a bill for 1300 bucks. 1300 dollars. These were routine tests; CBP, HgA1C, that sorta stuff.
When I called they asked me how I intended to pay. I said "I don't intend to pay, I intend for my insurance co. to pay."
After much wrangling, my co. decided they'd pay it. Later, I got a benefits statements and noticed the blood lab had settled for 179 dollars.
It's one thing to decide to welch on a debt for services rendered, but the fact is there is no credible basis for the price of anything medical or pharmaceutical. It's a scam. A game of chicken, and the average DB healthcare consumer can't possibly win.

__________________
You're a daisy if you do.
__________________________________
84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

Not quite the same thing. Actually, not even close to the same thing.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

How do you distinguish it from a debt collection (legal) point of view? Is a bill from a doctor, clinic or medical facility distinguishable as a legal obligation than say the bill from a plumber or auto mechanic? Yes, bills can be bartered or negotiated, but is there some basis to just ignore the debt without repercussion?

That's the thing though. If everyone knows it's exorbitantly priced and no one pays that price then why post it in the first place? It's like the cars we see listed on Ebay or what ever for 10 times the fair market value. Only difference is that the lister may not know that it is over priced.

I know you list a house about 10 or so above what you will take, not 2 or 4 times the price you will take.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

and some wonder why people cry out for something other than the system we have now....

Since the hospital misapplied the law they ought to be stuck with it. I know the tax payers or the insurance companies will get stuck with it so in the end it will be us.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Then there is the fact that when you are bitten by a poisonous or have some other life threatening even you don't have the luxury of shopping around for a few days to get a better deal if there is one to be had.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

That's exactly what I'm saying -- if you need a new alternator to escape an impending zombie apocalypse, you don't have the luxury of choice. Therefore the bill was incurred under duress and you could likely sue or prosecute anyone trying to collect it.

If you do not see the difference between a life threatening even and a auto mechanic bill then this will be a very difficult argument.

Yes debt is debt and I get that it is an obligation. My wife never signed a contract, she needed medical care. The charged $1k for a 5 mile trip (I measured it).

They are more than welcome to try and collect. They sent a few letters over a period of a year. Their attempts were not successful.

The argument I am making has nothing to do with an obligation to pay a debt. I am more curious to know if the medical care provider actually expects people to pay it? I know I did not. I am fairly certain that most people who are uninsured and got a $90k bill from a hospital would tell them to stuff it (and rightly so in my opinion) if they did not know it could be negotiated. Not sure what a fair price for the snake bite would be. Most folks could not afford $5k much less the $90k that was billed.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

If I'm not mistaken medical debt is WAY high on the list of bankruptcy filings.
I have insurance, and if anything happens before im 65, it's still my plan B.

__________________
You're a daisy if you do.
__________________________________
84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting