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  #1  
Old 02-13-2014, 11:58 PM
davidmash's Avatar
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Alabama passes bill that requires Cong prayer to be read at beginning of school

First KS now AL. What the hell is going on with the religious nuts in this country?

School prayer

The South is just plain nuts. There is no other way to describe it.

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Old 02-14-2014, 12:03 AM
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"Susan Watson, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Alabama, says the proposal is teacher-led prayer being dressed up as a civics lesson."

Pretty much sums it up. How about a few minutes of silence instead?
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  #3  
Old 02-14-2014, 12:12 AM
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They can be silent when they are not in school. Lol.
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- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #4  
Old 02-14-2014, 12:17 AM
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Its not just the south. The R controlled state government here in Indiana is taking us back to the 1800's socially. School vouchers for the third year, expanding each year. Stripped the teachers unions of all significant powers, and passing a law saying marriage is between a man and a woman, but they are stopping short of declaring same sex legal unions are illegal.

Most of this stuff they did not campaign on but now that they are in power they are ramming stuff through.
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Old 02-14-2014, 01:29 AM
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Old 02-14-2014, 06:46 AM
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If used for it's historic substance, then it should be allowed in history class, or civics class in the least. Many of those prayers are historic in nature, and show the emotions and line of thought of the country at the time that it was originally said.

While I don't agree with public schools forcing prayer upon those that don't follow that religion, I personally don't see anything wrong with offering prayer in the cafeteria right at the beginning of the school day. My alma mater had a prayer group that met every morning in the school's quadrangle, where the flag pole was, and would pray for the country, it's leaders, the school administration, and for understanding of the topics to be taught that day. It wasn't school sanctioned, but was done on school property every day...it happened for years until one single person complained...after that, it was moved to the sidewalk in front of the school and the city ended it because the group was too large to contain without being on the district's grass or having students stand in the street.

There's a difference between separation of church and state, and forcing any and all spiritual or religious thoughts out of public eye.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Its not just the south. The R controlled state government here in Indiana is taking us back to the 1800's socially. School vouchers for the third year, expanding each year. Stripped the teachers unions of all significant powers, and passing a law saying marriage is between a man and a woman, but they are stopping short of declaring same sex legal unions are illegal.

Most of this stuff they did not campaign on but now that they are in power they are ramming stuff through.
THAT is the 1800s?
I consider school vouchers as a very modern idea. Do you actually believe that union-controlled schools produce better-educated students than non-union schools?
Sounds like a state where the majority of Americans would be very comfortable.

Maybe you are the outlier.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:48 AM
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I don't see anything in the article indicating that the bill passed, only that it's been proposed. It's early though, might have missed it.
JP there is one kind of BIG difference between what's being proposed as law and the prayer group example you gave. It's called CHOICE.
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  #9  
Old 02-14-2014, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
THAT is the 1800s?
I consider school vouchers as a very modern idea. Do you actually believe that union-controlled schools produce better-educated students than non-union schools?
Sounds like a state where the majority of Americans would be very comfortable.

Maybe you are the outlier.
Its only one part of a general attack on public education.

It would appear that the ultimate goal is to go back to all private schools where only the well off attend.

I don't think I am the outlier, that suggests I am in the wrong. I don't think the average person understands what is happening. Each change is enacted without fanfare and most folks are unaware and simply trying to live their lives.
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  #10  
Old 02-14-2014, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
...Many of those prayers are historic in nature, and show the emotions and line of thought of the country at the time that it was originally said....
The bill, as I understand it, would not require the recitation of historic prayers. The link for the bill itself didn't work, so I am going off news reports like this:
Quote:
The bill would set aside 15 minutes at the start of each school day to study the procedures of Congress, and give a verbatim reading of a congressional opening prayer.

Bill seeks to let Alabama teachers read prayers - WSFA.com: News Weather and Sports for Montgomery, AL.
In other words, these bastards, I mean legislators, are trying to sneak in religion disguised as history. Doesn't seem like a very Christian thing to do, if you ask me.

Kids in this country have enough trouble learning basic math, history, science, and english. The government doesn't help matters by injecting this sort of thing into the curriculum. If they do feel the need to teach religion, let's make sure they teach that many historians reject the notion that we were founded as a Christian nation.

IMHO, religion is too important to be handled in the way the bill proposes.

Congressional opening prayers: Opening Prayer Archive, Office of the Chaplain

Book review talking about the question of whether this was ever intended to be a Christian nation: Project MUSE - The Religious Beliefs of America's Founders: Reason, Revelation, and Revolution by Gregg L. Frazer (review)
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  #11  
Old 02-14-2014, 08:58 AM
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Back in the Jurassic I went to a public school with a large Jewish proportion of students. We would start each day with a general abrahamic prayer followed by the 23rd psalm. Then we would face the flag and recite the pledge followed by singing "America the Beautiful".

I survived.

About age 10 or so (and in a different school) I began questioning my faith and began wondering why we said the Pledge every day. So sometimes I'd be silent while the class proceeded.

I survived.

No, I am not promoting religion in public schools. In general I think schools should be secular.

But I don't object to kids singing explicitly religious Christmas carols. Prayers at football games are perking stupid. So is the Star Spangled Banner. Just play the dang game. If kids want to sing Zoroastrian ballads (if they have such, I don't know) or atheist paeans, I don't give a damn. Heck, read Thomas Payne's essays contra-religion. They are excellent.

Kids will survive.

Get over it.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:00 AM
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...I survived....
In a twisted sort of way.
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  #13  
Old 02-14-2014, 09:15 AM
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Yeah, I'll give you that.

"Bent out of shape by society's pliers".
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  #14  
Old 02-14-2014, 10:28 AM
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It's backlash. Both sides of the religious, non-religious debate are hardening their views and choosing places to make a point and take a stand. Balkanization of the country due to disperate views on just about everything that elicits a visceral emotion.
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  #15  
Old 02-14-2014, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
It's backlash. Both sides of the religious, non-religious debate are hardening their views and choosing places to make a point and take a stand. Balkanization of the country due to disperate views on just about everything that elicits a visceral emotion.
That tide might be starting to turn as more people see the foolishness in it.

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