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  #1  
Old 02-18-2014, 07:35 AM
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Population bubble is chemically impossible in nature

The population of the earth is far above levels possible under nature. There is not enough nitrogen available to make the protein in people's bodies. Half of your body is an industrial product that was created to sustain economies of scale for wealthy people to get richer. Not only do they own you but they made you so that they could use you.

You came from an oil well. Where do babies come from? Oil wells.

I know this sounds wacky and if you don't do your homework you can never believe or understand this. Probably won't want to believe it anyway.

Have a nice day.

Haber process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Fertilizer generated from ammonia produced by the Haber process is estimated to be responsible for sustaining one-third of the Earth's population.[6] It is estimated that half of the protein within human beings is made of nitrogen that was originally fixed by this process; the remainder was produced by nitrogen fixing bacteria and archaea."

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Last edited by TwitchKitty; 02-18-2014 at 07:49 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-18-2014, 08:42 AM
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With average crop yields remaining at the 1900 level the crop harvest in the year 2000 would have required nearly four times more land and the cultivated area would have claimed nearly half of all ice-free continents, rather than under 15% of the total land area that is required today.[19]
It's a frightening prospect. Population continues to grow and farmland continues to be lost. Mother Nature keeps trying to limit population growth via natural disasters but humanitarian aid stifles her efforts.

Locally grown, organic, heirloom, antibiotic-free, growth hormone-free, grass fed, free range is great for those of us with the luxury of being able to afford it. But unless we become more comfortable with seeing mass starvation of populations across the globe (which I can't say that I would be), I'm not sure how we'll continue to feed the growing population on less land without more chemical inputs, genetic engineering, hybridization, etc.

It's great that we have the option of choosing what we eat, others are not so fortunate to pick their food sources when the choice is food vs. no food.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:17 AM
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Haber process is over 100 yrs old. Nitrogen is nitrogen. Whether it comes from legumes or coal or petroleum makes no difference.

If I wanted to be rich I would have worked my ass off to make money.

I don't give a shyte whether people are rich or poor or vegans or whatever. Just don't pheck with me and mine.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by TwitchKitty View Post
The population of the earth is far above levels possible under nature.
That's funny. We are nature. Therefore, it's possible. No one knows nature's "rules" - we, as nature, are not as smart as you think we are when it comes to the Earth and it's rules. Yes, we should try to understand them better, but we'll never figure them out. We're all chugging along on our path, and boom, Mother throws out a quick, simple, large volcano and everything we know goes away in 24 hours. Figure that into your "rules".
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:08 AM
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Nothing about human civilization is ecologically sustainable and naturally in balance. From a purely naturalistic perspective we are about the worst blight ever to befall the biota.

- Peter.
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  #6  
Old 02-18-2014, 12:00 PM
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Clearly, air is in nature, so there is enough nitrogen in the air to feed the Haber process. The bigger problem might be peak phosphorus:

Peak phosphorus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:17 PM
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The issue here is bioavailability. The nitrogen is not chemically available for use by people unless it is recombined into a different form. It just isn't available in nature without industrial means.

Read about bioavailability of nitrogen and nitrogen fixing.

Haber-Bosch makes the nitrogen available. The nitrogen in our bodies came from cheap petroleum. It would not have been available without cheap petroleum. Control of petroleum is control of the world. This is why grain grown in the US sells for less overseas than the people there can grow it themselves, even though it cost more to grow it here than it would cost to grow it there, so much for supply and demand.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:33 PM
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Looks like its time to colonize Mars. Terraform that **** and let's go.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:16 PM
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Are you average or an outlier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwitchKitty View Post
The issue here is bioavailability. The nitrogen is not chemically available for use by people unless it is recombined into a different form. It just isn't available in nature without industrial means.

Read about bioavailability of nitrogen and nitrogen fixing.

Haber-Bosch makes the nitrogen available. The nitrogen in our bodies came from cheap petroleum. It would not have been available without cheap petroleum. Control of petroleum is control of the world. This is why grain grown in the US sells for less overseas than the people there can grow it themselves, even though it cost more to grow it here than it would cost to grow it there, so much for supply and demand.
What is this 'our' business? Got mice in your pockets? It is in your body or at some supposed percentage ONLY if you eat from particular sources. And, regardless the percentage, nitrogen based proteins and all that are just that - hardly matters the source of the nitrogen. We can make fertilizer from almost any N source. Like the air. Direct ammonia into soil injection works just fine as does feeding ammonia to cattle. Ever notice those ammonia tanks outside farm buildings? An organic farm operation can get by with no commercial/chemical industry produced fertilizers, but unless they are concerned with the impact of making the stuff, their really isn't much argument against them. I agree that sustainability is worthy goal, but is seems we have already lost the battle against pollution and environmental degradation to greed the economic interests of the few. It will take something big to turn that tide.
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS View Post
What is this 'our' business? Got mice in your pockets? It is in your body or at some supposed percentage ONLY if you eat from particular sources. And, regardless the percentage, nitrogen based proteins and all that are just that - hardly matters the source of the nitrogen. We can make fertilizer from almost any N source. Like the air. Direct ammonia into soil injection works just fine as does feeding ammonia to cattle. Ever notice those ammonia tanks outside farm buildings? An organic farm operation can get by with no commercial/chemical industry produced fertilizers, but unless they are concerned with the impact of making the stuff, their really isn't much argument against them. I agree that sustainability is worthy goal, but is seems we have already lost the battle against pollution and environmental degradation to greed the economic interests of the few. It will take something big to turn that tide.
That's nice, contradictions and all. If this subject is of any interest to you I think you can find a much clearer understanding of the issues with some study.

There is another thread about what would happen if the banking system failed. See any connections?
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  #11  
Old 02-18-2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwitchKitty View Post
That's nice, contradictions and all. If this subject is of any interest to you I think you can find a much clearer understanding of the issues with some study.

There is another thread about what would happen if the banking system failed. See any connections?
For now lets stick to just this thread if you please. I do see a typo I made. But please point out what you think is a contradiction in that post and where you think my understanding (assuming you have magical powers) is not clear, let alone what I said. Thank you
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  #12  
Old 02-18-2014, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwitchKitty View Post
The issue here is bioavailability. The nitrogen is not chemically available for use by people unless it is recombined into a different form. It just isn't available in nature without industrial means.

Read about bioavailability of nitrogen and nitrogen fixing.

Haber-Bosch makes the nitrogen available. The nitrogen in our bodies came from cheap petroleum. It would not have been available without cheap petroleum. Control of petroleum is control of the world. This is why grain grown in the US sells for less overseas than the people there can grow it themselves, even though it cost more to grow it here than it would cost to grow it there, so much for supply and demand.
I agree with this. It explains quite clearly why any threat to the world petroleum supply is a clear and present danger to civilization.
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  #13  
Old 02-18-2014, 08:08 PM
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Haber-Bosch needs an energy source, a source of nitrogen (air), and a source of hydrogen (can be via splitting water or from natural gas). Petroleum isn't needed for the process. Energy source could be nuclear or solar as well.
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  #14  
Old 02-18-2014, 08:19 PM
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True. Petroleum has the virtue of being cheap. Get better source and you get rich!
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  #15  
Old 02-19-2014, 04:05 PM
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Won't hardly matter anyway after the bees are gone BBC News - Bumblebees infected with honeybee diseases

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