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  #1  
Old 02-19-2014, 09:51 PM
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I hope to see Detroit recover!!!

The number of Detroit residents legally buying and carrying guns "FULLY ENDORSED BY POLICE", is rising FAST.
Many admit to protesting and voting anti-gun until recently, when they or a family member was VICTIMIZED.

Even the extreme LEFT LIBERAL Democrat Detroit politicians are "reluctantly" waking up to the SIMPLE fact that those poor deprived underprivileged revolving door CRIMINALS have and continue to DRIVE AWAY TAX PAYING BUSINESS AND RESIDENTS...

I hope to see Detroit recover, with the new slogan:
* Welcome to Detroit the safest city in the United States of America.
* Welcome to Detroit "criminals issued a free toe tag and body bag".
* Welcome to Detroit "NO VICTIMS ALLOWED".

* Detroit "SAFE" because criminals FEAR our RESIDENTS..

.

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  #2  
Old 02-19-2014, 09:53 PM
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Well from the title I expected something a little lighter.
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2014, 10:39 PM
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Let the light shine

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  #4  
Old 02-20-2014, 12:39 AM
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I certainly wouldn't want to go live in a City that had to try and reassure me not to worry about taking measures to protect myself from a violent death.

Or worse, asking me to TAKE measures to protect myself if I want to live there.

The weather sounds pretty bad there too in winter.
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:01 AM
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Detroit is a rathole, and a crime-free Detroit would just be a rathole without crime.
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:20 AM
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Ride down Woodward Avenue into the Motor Cty

Elmore Leonard writes Detroit really well..

City Primeval (High Noon in Detroit) is a great example

Chapter One

In the matter of Alvin B. Guy, Judge of Recorder’s Court, City of Detroit:

The investigation of the Judicial Tenure Commission found the respondent guilty of misconduct in office and conduct clearly prejudicial to the administration of justice. The allegations set forth in the formal complaint were that Judge Guy:

1) Was discourteous and abusive to counsel, litigants, witnesses, court personnel, spectators and news reporters.
2) Used threats of imprisonment or promises of probation to induce pleas of guilty.
3) Abused the power of contempt.
4) Used his office to benefit friends and acquaintances.
5) Bragged of his sexual prowess openly.
6) Was continually guilty of judicial misconduct that was not only prejudicial to the administration of justice but destroyed respect for the office he holds.

Abridged examples of testimony follow.

On April 26, Judge Guy interceded on behalf of a twice convicted narcotics dealer, Tyrone Perry, who was being questioned as a witness and possible suspect in a murder that had taken place at Mr. Perry’s residence. Judge Guy appeared at Room 527 of police headquarters and told the homicide detectives questioning Perry that he was “holding court here and now” and to release the witness. When Sergeant Gerald Hunter questioned the propriety of this, Judge Guy grabbed him by the arm and pushed him against a desk. Sgt. Hunter voiced objection to this treatment and Judge Guy said, before witnesses, “I’ll push you around any time I want. You’re in my courtroom and if you open your mouth I’ll hold you in contempt of court.” Judge Guy then left police headquarters with Mr. Perry.



more:

The Elmore Leonard Website
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:40 AM
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Still not a reasonable situation. Detroit will have to wake up and realize. To have any future at all crime will have to be eliminated. Actually that is an industry in itself.

Any other approach does not matter much. There is just no way to pull new business in with the current environment. To let the few ruin the place for the majority is totally counter productive. If not outright stupidity.

It was also stupid to not even realize that by letting crime errupt so many years ago that it was not going to cost a fortune to remedy.

How does a city spend money it does not have? They just have to borrow a template from the federal government that have to be the acknowledged masters. What a mess the place is but still salvageable if the will is there. without the will it is worse than hopeless. Only talk is pointless.

Maybe it would take the presence of the national guard to get the message across that crime is finished there so criminals go elsewhere. Or if they remain the penalties are going to be the severest in north America by far.

I am all for freedoms etc. But when criminal activity reaches an unreal rate is another item that should be seriously dealt with. Start chain gangs and whatever to clean up the city. Just do whatever it takes. Normal people should expect better.

A chronic example to me is when the mother evicted three people that kicked their way into a house with a rifle shot on the Detroit news. Then one of them re entered with a gun in his hand. He meant to shoot her to exercise his will.

This is absolute human garbage that is not a rehab candidate. He should be executed. Anything less is basically saying it is okay. Tough on crime is not a saying but can become an absolute requirement to make a place livable. Otherwise all can be lost.

It is not rocket science and rights are only applicable until a situation deteriorates so far. Then it is a case of doing what has to be done. Not doing this results in a far worse potential scenario.

Arm the citizens in that environment? Really great thinking as then the criminals would shoot them first to get whatever they want rather than take a chance. It almost seems to me the criminals have to go by any method it takes. Todays methods used there based on what is visable are not doing it. Society especially the locals would probably turn a blind eye to the process used to get it done.

Law and order are not an abstract concept but a necessity. Whatever it takes to establish it is what it takes. The fašade is there in Detroit but not the fact.
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  #8  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:57 AM
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Crime is both a cause and a symptom, but probably more of a symptom of economic decline. How about this solution? Allow a half million immigrants with no criminal records and some industrial/technical skills into the US, under the condition that they agree to settle in Detroit proper for 10 years after entry into the US.
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  #9  
Old 02-20-2014, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Crime is both a cause and a symptom, but probably more of a symptom of economic decline. How about this solution? Allow a half million immigrants with no criminal records and some industrial/technical skills into the US, under the condition that they agree to settle in Detroit proper for 10 years after entry into the US.
Would they even come on that basis is a real question mark. Sure there will always be some immigration of third world people. Generally though I think north America has lost a lot of it's allure over time. I know Canada has taken a pro immigration stance and still does.

In some ways the more recient immigration has been good and in some ways bad. Some immigration comes from places with similar problems to Detroits as well. Swaping one place for a similar or worse place is not going to attract many takers.

Today there is more crime per capita in the larger more wealthy Canadian cities than the more modest sized ones I expect. Then again you may be right as there is also more desperation there and some poverty.
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  #10  
Old 02-20-2014, 03:51 AM
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by barry12345 View Post
Still not a reasonable situation. Detroit will have to wake up and realize. To have any future at all crime will have to be eliminated. Actually that is an industry in itself.

Any other approach does not matter much. There is just no way to pull new business in with the current environment. To let the few ruin the place for the majority is totally counter productive. If not outright stupidity.

It was also stupid to not even realize that by letting crime errupt so many years ago that it was not going to cost a fortune to remedy.

How does a city spend money it does not have? They just have to borrow a template from the federal government that have to be the acknowledged masters. What a mess the place is but still salvageable if the will is there. without the will it is worse than hopeless. Only talk is pointless.

Maybe it would take the presence of the national guard to get the message across that crime is finished there so criminals go elsewhere. Or if they remain the penalties are going to be the severest in north America by far.

I am all for freedoms etc. But when criminal activity reaches an unreal rate is another item that should be seriously dealt with. Start chain gangs and whatever to clean up the city. Just do whatever it takes. Normal people should expect better.

A chronic example to me is when the mother evicted three people that kicked their way into a house with a rifle shot on the Detroit news. Then one of them re entered with a gun in his hand. He meant to shoot her to exercise his will.

This is absolute human garbage that is not a rehab candidate. He should be executed. Anything less is basically saying it is okay. Tough on crime is not a saying but can become an absolute requirement to make a place livable. Otherwise all can be lost.

It is not rocket science and rights are only applicable until a situation deteriorates so far. Then it is a case of doing what has to be done. Not doing this results in a far worse potential scenario.

Arm the citizens in that environment? Really great thinking as then the criminals would shoot them first to get whatever they want rather than take a chance. It almost seems to me the criminals have to go by any method it takes. Todays methods used there based on what is visable are not doing it. Society especially the locals would probably turn a blind eye to the process used to get it done.

Law and order are not an abstract concept but a necessity. Whatever it takes to establish it is what it takes. The fašade is there in Detroit but not the fact.
Under EX Mayor (convicted criminal) kwame kilpatrick, Michigan governor Rick Snyder resisted the possibility of declaring martial law and sending in the national guard to POLICE Detroit.

I think he was incredibly wise to get the emergency city manager law pushed through = Financial Martial Law = the auditor Detroit emergency manager Kevyn Orr brought in has been critical to digging out corruption on all levels.

It is possible Detroit will follow the pattern used for "Pontiac".
When Detroit emergency manager Kevyn Orr leaves, state may use new form of control | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

IMO it depends to a large degree upon the success of the current Police Chief, Mayor of Detroit, and citizen participation ???

.
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  #11  
Old 02-20-2014, 12:25 PM
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The head of Quicken loans is putting money into reviving Detroit, I read recently. I hope he's successful. Vision and money are both important, but the citizens have to take an active role, too, if efforts like this are to ever succeed.
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  #12  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:41 PM
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Yes the citizens may even have to turn criminals in. By informing the police of their activities. I doubt the police can do the whole job alone.

If crime can be reduced to much lower than national levels the city could start to thrive. If the current efforts gained momentum it could accelerate.

The issues in Detroit are many but those that effect the feeling of personal security by citizens can be dealt with. The more insecurity in life when present the more if not dysfunction certainly unhappiness in the population.

It was only in the last few posts that I see at least Detroit may have at long last started the required process. It will accelerate if the citizens find it to be effective and real.

The ideal of the wild west at one time is basically pure mythology. Unfortunatly in the younger population of cities there are components that think this type of behavior is actually is possible.

Part of what may come to pass is the issue with guns. This may be a tough one. It may take a younger person caught without a carry permit having to face a very long prison sentence to get it stopped.

Also very serious penaties for carrying knives etc. As soon as the penalties are known to be consistant the problems should ease. Take away the extension of power guns etc enable for especially adolecents mentally and you make headway. Not doing so is not an option either.

I would expect the legal proffession and the structured justice system would have to be ordered to go along with the changes. It would no longer be business as usual. Everyone should be aware that there is a price to get the job done.

In some ways the justice system is at least partially responsible for what broke out in Detroit. Reasonable law and order existing is not a concept. Without it there is only chaos.

One change that I have seen is possible. The cost of incarceration at a serious level is too high to bear. Instead at the time of sentencing the individual is given the option of leaving the city. Or ordered to leave. A real shame if it tampers with a criminals rights. But those rights are not really justification to have a hell hole existence for the bulk of the population. No existing law supports society having to provide an existing platform for them. Making full restitution for crime as part of the penalty and enforcing it is yet another option to apply. In reality hitting them so hard it hurts will help. This slap on the wrist just does not work.

The reality is it is a choice of the criminal for commiting offenses against society. My thoughts are very severe but so is the problem. Detroit is in a great position to show what can be done.

The awareness they had the brainpower and will to solve their issues. Could help bring the city not only back but result in an even better city than ever existed could manifest itself.
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  #13  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:50 PM
A Talent for Obfuscation
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee8go View Post
The head of Quicken loans is putting money into reviving Detroit, I read recently. I hope he's successful. Vision and money are both important, but the citizens have to take an active role, too, if efforts like this are to ever succeed.
He needs a write-off.
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  #14  
Old 02-20-2014, 01:55 PM
A Talent for Obfuscation
 
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What is the possible ROI in Detroit? What are the characteristics of Detroit and/or its people that warrant investment in its revival? What industries would, without public subsidy, thrive in Detroit? If you don't have business investment, what is the point in infrastructure investment? Do you rebuild it, and hope that business investment will come?
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  #15  
Old 02-20-2014, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by P.C. View Post
What is the possible ROI in Detroit? What are the characteristics of Detroit and/or its people that warrant investment in its revival? What industries would, without public subsidy, thrive in Detroit? If you don't have business investment, what is the point in infrastructure investment? Do you rebuild it, and hope that business investment will come?
You do a good job exceeding averages and it will come back in some fashion. The flip side is really not an option as things would still further decline . Clean it up properly and I suspect you may even see some Chinese money put in. The stability of an environment is of ultra importance for many companies historically. Especially if a foreign company is introducing some of their management types living in an area. Cities can act somewhat like the stock market. Detroit seriously tanked. Soon may be a good time to start getting back in cheap if certain things are properly executed.

We have a city of Moncton about thirty five miles away. They were a massive railroad maintenance centre. Basically a one horse city.. The center totally closed out. The doom and gloom was prevelant. They started to work almost right away at rectification of the problem. No further deterioration was allowed.

They called everything right and returned as a real powerhouse. I am positive the way they did it many envied. Even have smaller commercial industries that are based in the USA present. Ten times the city now than what it was before the large rail maintenance centre pulled out.

The secret was they got the whole community involved in pulling it upward. They always had good law and order and a population pulling together was a prime factor I think. .Personally I have considered them smart people that knew what it would take to do what needed done. What was impressive is they seem to have avoided the effects of the 2008/2009 period to a much greater extent than most places. They managed to expand even through that time period and still do today. Nice place to live with great infustructure of all types. Excellent medical center fully supported willingly by the community. Even this they have done differently. No wonder those American subsiduaries arrive.

Contrast this with an ex mining town twenty miles away from us in the other direction. .The mines closed long ago and the town did not really rebound. Today it still remains pretty dead in the water. Because of inherent problems they were unable to transition well. If the effort had been expended at elimination of those problems they may have prospered again. I would not invest money in that place either. Not when there are Monctons available.


Last edited by barry12345; 02-20-2014 at 02:51 PM.
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