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  #1  
Old 02-24-2014, 03:33 PM
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Led household bulbs versus florecents.

While it is on my mind. I was in the cashier lineup at the building supply store and casually observed a lighting display. A sixty watt output led bulb equivalent consumes 13 watts. A florescent bulb with the same lumens of output 11 watts. These claims are kelvin temperature dependent I suspect.

I will have to look into this but the difficulty of diffusion of light makes me think they are using pretty powerful leds to get the job done. So there may little to no savings going led over florecent bulbs.

The led bulbs advantages may be limited to rapid instant on and much better cold environment operation. Their claimed much longer lifespan does factor in but you have to be careful here as their aging drop off of output is an leds fact of life.

I had a horrible time diffusing the led light without heavy losses myself in the process. The solution I arrived at allows lower operating costs for the same output of lumens as the large companies provide.

It came as quite a surprise to me and I will have to review this whole area. I was not paying attention to the household bulb market and assumed perhaps improperly that they were more efficient overall.

I have started to study trends. Providing hydro is both a necessity and an opportunity to profit. Applying todays standards I expect hydro provision to become much more expensive as a percentage of incomes over the even shorter term now locally at least.

The politicians sold the public utitity here to private interests. Now that the price has reached about fifteen cents per kilowatt hour and will make twenty cents in the not too long haul.

People are starting to ask why the politicians acted against their best interests. Some citizens want to even buy it back but it is too late now as it has become a growing cash cow. We could not afford to period.

In fact I doubt it is for sale at almost any price. So in response the only alternative locally is to make things we do electrically much more efficient. This plays into the private utilities hands as they do not experience the costs of increasing generation capacity.

Anyways the message is look hard at switching from florescent bulbs to led bulbs. I will update this area when I get a better chance to look at this So I could have got something wrong. It would not be the first time.

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Old 02-24-2014, 04:04 PM
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My wife works for a company that distributes Philips commercial lighting products. A few years ago, their primary product group was "fixtures and drivers" primarily florescent. Presently, that side of the business is on the way out as more architects, lighting designers and building owners are going LED. Retrofit LED in T8 tubes is just a stop gap, just like those CFL replacement bulbs were, as new and more efficient fixtures become more widely deployed.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:23 PM
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I'm done with flourescents.

Nearly every bulb in my house has been converted to LED's.

They put out superior quality light relative to flourescent.

Also, they produce no heat.

Regular flourescents aren't dimmable, and the dimmable ones are expensive and dim poorly.

LED's dim magnificently.

If you are using a flourescent bulb on a fixture that you turn on and off a lot, like most fixtures, you will only get 2-3 years out of them. The projected life of 7 years is a pipe dream.

The LED's I've installed say they have a life span of something like 22 years, and the specialty light store I buy from says you're likely to get it.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:56 PM
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While the LED portion of a lamp or fixture does not "generate" heat in the way an incandescent bulb does, there is some from the built in drivers that are converting the 110 VAC house current to either 12 or 24VDC that the LEDs require. Heat sinks and cooling vents are built into many bulbs. However, they're nowhere as warm as a 60W will get in a table lamp.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI View Post
While the LED portion of a lamp or fixture does not "generate" heat in the way an incandescent bulb does, there is some from the built in drivers that are converting the 110 VAC house current to either 12 or 24VDC that the LEDs require. Heat sinks and cooling vents are built into many bulbs. However, they're nowhere as warm as a 60W will get in a table lamp.
Point taken, but as a non-scientist, a 60 watt equivalent LED is cool to the touch.

I'd burn my fingers if I touched a 60 watt incandescent or flourescent.

In the summertime, the six recessed cans in my kitchen ceiling generate a ton of heat with the old halogens or flourescent.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:14 PM
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Yup, we have the same issue here, except we have exceptionally high ceilings in the kitchen, so despite having 7 recessed cans, the 65W R30 floods that were in there weren't bright enough. We sourced a case lot of "outlawed" 100W incandescent floods that we've been going through for the past three years, but now we're switching to 13W dimming LED at 1100 lumens and 3K color temp and reinforcing the light from our undercabinet LED puck lights with LED tape lights.
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2014, 01:34 AM
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I put in a new vent-a-hood a few years ago. A Bosch stainless that I am very happy with.

And I am even happier with it after I dumped the halogen bulbs that came with it. OK, so the stove is hot, but the two halogens were like heat lamps on your hands. I switched to LED's, got a clearer light and no heat ray frying my hands.

LED's offer advantages that I can feel over other types of bulbs. It may all be in my mind, but what sells products is the sizzle and not the steak.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:36 AM
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LED without a doubt.

CFLs die quickly, despite the warranty printed on the box.

LEDs do generate heat (They're not 100% efficient) but it is much less than an incandescent. I would still have some open airflow around an LED bulb, otherwise it can shorten the life.

Color temperature is important, but CRI is the measure oyu want. The sun has a Color Rendition Index of 100, so get as close to 100 as you can find.

Philips and Cree produce the best LEDs, IMO worth the extra couple bucks.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:42 AM
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We have had great luck with CFLs- only had one burn out in 7 years. We put up a track light with 50 watt GU10 based halogens a few months ago. Got a box of 6 15watt LED replacements that I hope will do the same without the heat. It seems hard to figure out the equivalents.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:46 AM
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At this point in time, fluorescent tubes are still ahead of LED in regards to lumens per watt. However, those lumens are dispersed in a 360 degree pattern rather than a focused pattern from an LED.

When you get into bulb applications, the CFL uses almost double the wattage for the same lumen output of an LED, and still has the directivity issue.

I'm almost exclusively LED now, and couldn't be happier.
One extremely fine application for LED bulbs is in a drop light.... you can actually drop it!

Compare: LED Lights vs CFL vs Incandescent Lighting Chart
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2014, 12:39 PM
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I'm glad to hear folks are having good results. I feel like I was suckered with the CFL's, so I've been hesitant on the LED's. I still plan on waiting a few years to see how the longevity is, as that was the biggest let down for me with the CFL's. Ridiculously high estimates for life on the CFL's, combined with their on the package comparisons to standard bulbs, which routinely last several times longer than "they" say they will, really left a bitter taste in the mouth for me.

I don't have any fancy fixtures, or any dimmable lights, about the most complex thing I have is a ceiling fan that takes four bulbs, all with the tiny base. 4 CFL's never worked, they always flickered, I imagine it had to do with too many ballasts too close together. If I replaced one or two with incandescents, the problem went away.

So I'm watching, and hoping, but it's going to take a bit to get over the CFL debacle.

MV
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2014, 12:57 PM
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With LEDs you have 2 main failure points:
The power supply (going from 120VAC to 4VDC)
The LEDs overheating

So with a little bit of airflow and a decent power supply you're golden
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Old 02-25-2014, 01:10 PM
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Most current LED systems are 24VDC, however the critical part of the power supply is calculating the proper amperage for the size of the LED array.
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  #14  
Old 02-25-2014, 01:24 PM
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The only real drawback to me right now with LED's is the cost.

I just bought 6 LED flood lights for the motion sensor lights on the exterior of my house, and they were almost $30 each.

They replaced the typical halogen flood light.

I'm now getting the equivalent of 90 watts of light, and only using 20 watts.

And hopefully, these LED bulbs will last at least 20 years, at which time I'll be retired.
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2014, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
I just bought 6 LED flood lights for the motion sensor lights on the exterior of my house, and they were almost $30 each.
They are MUCH cheaper direct from China on ebay. I paid $5 each for 15 watt GU10.

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