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  #1  
Old 02-26-2014, 12:44 PM
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Ali - Liston, Was the Fix In?

The fix was in: FBI suspected Ali-Liston bout in '64 was rigged - CBSSports.com

Clay won in a six-round bout after Liston retired due to a shoulder injury -- a fact that has since been questioned. Still, the fight was regarded as a seminal moment in boxing's history, and was named the fourth-greatest sports moment of the century by Sports Illustrated.

What's next, professional wrestling isn't real?

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Old 02-26-2014, 01:09 PM
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There was pay TV in 1964?
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:40 PM
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It was called "Closed Circuit" back then

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Old 02-26-2014, 02:03 PM
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Interesting choice of photographs for that poster.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:34 PM
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Slow day in the sports world? CBS is caught between the end of the NFL season and the start of the NCAA Tournament & the Masters.
Half the guys here weren't even born in '64.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:54 PM
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Anniversary event, I think.
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:31 PM
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Anniversary event, I think.
Ah, yes. How could I forget.
Drowning in the Sea of Beatlemania at the time, I suppose. I do remember listening to the fight with my roomates. No cable in those days, only rabbit ears.

I don't see anything particularly "interesting" in the promo photos. Liston was the Big Ugly Bear. Clay was ever the braggard & showman. Remember, this was before the Civil Rights act was passed. And the Atlantic Coast Conference was still an "all white" show.
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Old 02-26-2014, 08:14 PM
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I cannot imagine someone giving up the title for money. Perhaps if they threatened to kill him if he didn't throw the fight.

If he was convinced he couldn't win perhaps he might go down earlier to beat a spread (or whatever they call it in boxing).

I just think Ali was that good. He was greased lightning and 6 foot 4 with the quickest hands ever seen on a heavyweight...perhaps still so (not now but when he was young and fresh).

Later when he got old and out of shape and probably damaged he survived by guile and an incredible ability to take punches and stay vertical....that is no doubt what caused his Parkinson's.

I was a sophomore in HS I suppose in 64. I thought he was amazing. He and Willie Joe were mouthy but they backed it up with their athletic ability. I thought that was ok.
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Old 02-26-2014, 08:58 PM
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I watched this fight on the closed circuit. It was projected on a movie screen at a hotel. I don't remember what it cost since someone else was paying.

Nothing looked fishy at the time. If it was rigged it fooled everyone I was watching it with.

Ali was not only fast but he was smart. You could tell you were seeing something new when you watched him as he didn't just beat-up the other guy but wore him down and sucked him in to making mistakes. Some of those in the room were wondering if they could take him in a real bare fisted fight, but that might have been the booze talking.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:27 AM
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Ali was a tough fighter. His punches had real power. He fought through pain too. I don't know how many fights he broke his hands in and finished the fight inspite of the pain. Then there was the Norton fight which he finished with a broken jaw....to mention nothing of the hammering he endured from Frasier and Foreman.

Take him in a bare knuckle fight? Not many could....not when he was in his prime.

Hell the professionals could not lay a glove on him, how could some guy in a bar?
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Ali was a tough fighter. His punches had real power. He fought through pain too. I don't know how many fights he broke his hands in and finished the fight inspite of the pain. Then there was the Norton fight which he finished with a broken jaw....to mention nothing of the hammering he endured from Frasier and Foreman.

Take him in a bare knuckle fight? Not many could....not when he was in his prime.

Hell the professionals could not lay a glove on him, how could some guy in a bar?
It would depend on how much the guy had had to drink. The more booze he had put away the better the chance he had at beating Ali. All you had to do was ask him and he would give you the old 'I can beat any guy in the room' routine. Yeah, drunks at one time actually said stuff like that.

Ali once said that getting hit by Frasier was like taking a broken baseball bat, one with a big crack in it, and striking it hard against a tree. It set up a vibration that ran through your whole body.
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:20 AM
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Frasier was a bruising puncher too....perhaps more so than Ali, but his main thing was digging in deep and pounding the body. I think Ali peed blood for a week after fighting him....but Joe took so much punishment too his eyes were swollen shut. He looked like he had messed with an angry hornets nest!

...sting like a bee!

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