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  #1  
Old 02-28-2014, 04:23 PM
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Russia moves troops onto Ukrainian soil?

Supposedly to protect their naval bases...

Russia admits that it has moved troops in Ukraine - Telegraph

Wake up Vlad, look at the calendar. It's not 1956 or 1968.

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  #2  
Old 02-28-2014, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Supposedly to protect their naval bases...

Russia admits that it has moved troops in Ukraine - Telegraph

Wake up Vlad, look at the calendar. It's not 1956 or 1968.
You should really try reading a bit of history.

Quote:
On 19 February 1954, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union issued a decree transferring the Crimean Oblast from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR.[22]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea#In_the_Soviet_Union

The Crimea was always historically Russian and still has a majority Russian population today. It has as much to do with modern day Ukraine as Patagonia. I'm guessing that the Russians struck a secret deal with the EU and NATO where they get Crimea in exchange for a westernized Ukraine that eventually becomes part of the EU. A similar bargain was struck in Georgia a few years back. The Ukraine as it exists today is not sustainable.

Last edited by tjts1; 02-28-2014 at 05:12 PM.
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2014, 05:06 PM
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I called it, they are at the airports as well.

Russia is going to invade, er well is.

Its going to have all sorts of interesting geo political ramifications.
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  #4  
Old 02-28-2014, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
The Crimea was always historically Russian and a majority Russian population even today. It has as much to do with modern day Ukraine as Patagonia. I'm guessing that the Russians struck a secret deal with the EU and NATO where they get Crimea in exchange for a westernized Ukraine that eventually becomes part of the EU. The Ukraine as it exists today is not sustainable.
Military invasion of a foreign country that didn't attack you is not acceptable. Period.

Read your history ...
Secret partition pacts tend not to always work out well ... Ribbentrob-Molotov.
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Military invasion of a foreign country that didn't attack you is not acceptable. Period.

Read your history ...
Secret partition pacts tend not to always work out well ... Ribbentrob-Molotov.
The world is far less black and white than you imagine. There are many different interests at play here and few good options. Leaving the status quo is not one of them. The important point here is that the powers that be are talking instead of shooting at each other and they're working out a solution that will prevent a shooting war. Hopefully the people in Kiev will recognize that this is the their best option. They're the only real wild card in this situation.
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
The world is far less black and white than you imagine. There are many different interests at play here and few good options. Leaving the status quo is not one of them. The important point here is that the powers that be are talking instead of shooting at each other and they're working out a solution that will prevent a shooting war. Hopefully the people in Kiev will recognize that this is the their best option. They're the only real wild card in this situation.
Um, there is a shooting war currently going on. The only question is whether or not it continues and worsens.
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2014, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Military invasion of a foreign country that didn't attack you is not acceptable. Period.
Not necessarily. As one who doesn't particularly care one way or another about Russia or Ukraine, I'm perfectly happy to sit back and watch this one. I believe both countries have relatively large populations of hot women. Perhaps a war will produce a flood of refugee hotties to our shores.
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Um, there is a shooting war currently going on. The only question is whether or not it continues and worsens.
LOL no there isn't.
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Not necessarily. As one who doesn't particularly care one way or another about Russia or Ukraine, I'm perfectly happy to sit back and watch this one. I believe both countries have relatively large populations of hot women. Perhaps a war will produce a flood of refugee hotties to our shores.
Now we're getting to the real issue at hand.
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2014, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Not necessarily. As one who doesn't particularly care one way or another about Russia or Ukraine, I'm perfectly happy to sit back and watch this one. I believe both countries have relatively large populations of hot women. Perhaps a war will produce a flood of refugee hotties to our shores.
Said someone about the Czechs and Germans in 1938
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2014, 09:30 PM
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Russia will NEVER give up its naval bases in the Crimea which are wthin the Ukraine.

NEVER.


I think the country will split in half and Russia will go in and make everything east of the Dniepr River which on the East side has more Russian leaning inhabitants anyway. Looking at a map, the river seems to suggest suggests a natural border anyway.

THIS is the best mement to do it as the new government of Western Ukraine is too weak to oppose Russia militarily in the Eastern part of the Country, that Russia always wanted to have anyway ever since Ukraine broke away in 1991.
Whether they annex it outright or make it a satellite country again I have no idea, The deposed Ukrainian leader, having taken sanctuary in Russia already, might want to come back and be the head of the "new" (eastern Ukraine) - the majority of the folks already there probably want him in charge again anyhow. .And if the Ukraine tried to hang on to it, the 5th column of Russians there would create a intolerable situation for the Ukrainians already.

I think there is practically a fait accompli here - it's pretty much over.

Ukraine is already on the verge of bankruptcy, they need $15 billion euros right now just to stay afloat. They hope to get it from the EU.


If a new Eastern Ukraine forms, or its absorbed into Russia completely, I am sure Russia will funnel billions of the equivalent to the Ukraine, in cash, natural gas subsidies, whatever it takes to keep the place under control, and that will include occupying soldiers if need be.

The UN or the Western allies can't step in to keep the Country together wihout the risk of an all out war. Even the Ukranians might have some nukes from the Ussr around.


Bottom line is Putin will NOT put the Russian naval presence in he Crimea at risk. It is a matter of vital Russian national security.

That's what I think.

I have Russian friends here, and Ukrainian ones too. (MANY have settled in this area) But this is kind of a third rail. they are not too eager to talk about this. To them it is very upsetting, personal and quite real, with relatives and some family still back there.


So far as those hotties are concerned, I agree that they are luscious blue eyed good looking blondes, but many of them will NOT age well. Their looks REALLY go, -- in many many cases. But many of them are extremely educated, especially those that grew up under Communism - doctors, physicists and so on, often multilingual.

Just my thoughts today. We'll see. The USA should stay out of this - no strategic interests at stake, though it is heartbreaking to see the country ripped asunder.

Geopolitically I think the country will be split in half, as I said.
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  #11  
Old 02-28-2014, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
The world is far less black and white than you imagine. There are many different interests at play here and few good options. Leaving the status quo is not one of them. The important point here is that the powers that be are talking instead of shooting at each other and they're working out a solution that will prevent a shooting war. Hopefully the people in Kiev will recognize that this is the their best option. They're the only real wild card in this situation.
Foreign troops at your airports is the start of a shooting war. If such a thing happened at JFK I'm pretty sure most Americans would want to start shooting back.

I suspect Russia is strong arming their way into the parts of the Ukraine they need to stay in their sphere who are also mostly Russian. I suspect a back room deal that splits the Ukraine or at least gives Russia a free hand to do what they need to do in their sphere is happening, or already has.

If it works this will settle down quickly, if it doesn't? Who knows.
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2014, 10:45 PM
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Some of the Russian military equipment is pretty unusual looking!

pic's: (From the technical military museum)

In the Big Technical Museum | English Russia | Page 2
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2014, 12:14 AM
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As I said. Eventually there will be war. Maybe not immediately. And maybe a relatively "low key" insurgency type civil war in each area of the country. But it will happen. This is Russia you are dealing with here. They have nothing to gain an everything to lose by backing down and allowing the Ukrainians to keep the Crimea and the other predominantly Russian regions. It's not as if the west can do anything about it either. They can huff and puff but there will be no Franco-British-Turkish expedition returning to the Crimea any time soon...

- Peter.
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2014, 02:24 AM
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In 1954, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev gave Ukraine a gift: Crimea. At the time, it seemed like a routine move, but six decades later, that gift is having consequences for both countries.

The transfer merited only a paragraph in Pravda, the official Soviet newspaper, on Feb. 27, 1954. The story was one long sentence and dense with detail. Here's what it said:

"Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet transferring Crimea Province from the Russian Republic to the Ukraine Republic, taking into account the integral character of the economy, the territorial proximity and the close economic ties between Crimea Province and the Ukraine Republic, and approving the joint presentation of the Presidium of the Russian Republic Supreme Soviet and the Presidium of the Ukraine Republic Supreme Soviet on the transfer of Crimea Province from the Russian Republic to the Ukraine Republic."

And with that, a region that had been part of Russia for centuries was "gifted" to Ukraine.
Crimea: A Gift To Ukraine Becomes A Political Flash Point : Parallels : NPR
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  #15  
Old 03-01-2014, 07:25 AM
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What do you all think of the President's statement? ( Is this what he meant by his off-mic comments about being able to do more after his re-election?)

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