No, the Crosstrek is smaller than the Forester.

Oops!

Thanks!

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I have wondered about the Jeeps that came along after the Cherokee. I still miss my Cherokee sometimes, the utility but not the economy.

Once again we are screwed by global mindfark finance. A cheap, efficient utility vehicle would sell like crazy but it doesn't fit the global plan for us. You must buy a lazyboy mallville vehicle to play bumper cars in parking lots and at red lights.

You could probably get some good information about the newer jeeps over at the pirate website but reading the rest of the crap that came with it might not be worth the effort.

This would defer temporarily what you know you need to do. 200K and a commute like that is approaching a tightrope walk.

How much is a hardtop Wrangler these days?

It's not a question of the global market. It's a question of the Dumberican market. Simpler vehicles are available in other places, like if you cross our southern border to Mexico.

Mid 20's. to start. Unacceptable mileage. She hauls a lot of stuff, not really an option.

The Forester we drove had an MSRP of 24,009, the Crosstrek was about 1800 more. I didn't get to the dealing point so don't know about any discounts. He did tell me that the Costco program would give about 1300 off on the Crosstrek. Called it "invoice", which I suspect is BS, or maybe not.

The Forester's 6 speed stick was pretty sweet, and I don't particularly like sticks. I suspect the phone will be ringing when I get home today.

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You're a daisy if you do.
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84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

Wasn't there a website somewhere to figure the various car models' dealer cost factor for estimating actual invoice?

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You're a daisy if you do.
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84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

Seems like a lot of conclusions are being based on very little data.
Also, remember, being critical ( rather than supportive) makes one seem wiser- at least in one's own eyes.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Seems like I am the only person here that has actually OWNED a Patriot. As I said earlier, it is a sturdy, simple vehicle. I paid like 16k new for it in '11, and it has never been in the shop. Great traction in all the crappy weather we have here in OK, has traction control and ABS, I think, whatever comes standard on these. I bought it to keep until it falls apart. Gets high 20s on the highway and not much lower in town. Can fold the rear seats down and carry stuff in it. Sure, it is not as "hip" as a Subbie, or as socially concious as a CRV (lol) but it is an honest, hard working vehicle. Not a bunch of wizard crap on mine: no CVT, no electric windows, etc. Just a little front drive car/micro-wagon. I dig it.....El Chivito, check 'em out....

Have you considered the new Cherokee? If you've looked at the Forester, it'd be a direct competitor. Aside from early trans issues, they are supposed to be very good.

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TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

Hassle-free car-buying experience from a nationwide network of certified dealers. - TrueCar

This was a good site a couple or a few years ago when I accessed it through motortrend. It has probably changed hands by now and I have no idea how reliable it is. It probably belongs to car sellers, financers or insurers.

My buddies who buy used cars for resale tell me that everything has changed and they don't go to auctions anymore. They buy over the Internet. If you have someone locally who is up on the ways of the west they may be able to snag you a low mileage deal.

I have always thought that unless you can get a steeply discounted new car, and it is the season for 2013s, you are better off buying used.

This guy has been known to make sense on occasion.

my 3rd party 2 cents

the wife test drove a patriot when she was thinking about new cars, and her principle complaint was lack of visibility out the back. She said the patriot windows were narrowed down quite a bit on the inside as compared to how large they look outside the vehicle, and she didn't like the level of blind spots she felt the car had.

Those that own them, do you have similar observations on visibility? How do you like it?

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This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

That is the plan for them. Cross the border and you an have it too. I heard there were record numbers of people who denounced their citizenship last year.

Right, we take what our masters offer just like everyone else. Buck the system and see what it gets you. You could be one of the lucky few but the odds are not with you. Pay your interest, insurance, taxes, pretend, and wave the flag.

Yet you can drive a used car bought for $2000, live in a house with a rental unit that pays the mortgage, buy year-old electronics at 30% of the cost new on Craigslist. You don't HAVE to play their game if you don't want to, and you can live very well since the system is geared to debt-slaves. No housing + car + credit card expense on an American income == the good life.