Anybody know what engine would be in a 1927 American Le France fire engine? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #1 06-20-2014, 11:01 PM

I was in North Carolina yesterday with my #1 grandson who is crazy about fire engines, firemen, etc. The fellow showing us around the #1 station in Asheville NC was very nice and showed us all their engines. The grandson left me way behind in his knowledgable questions about how they go about fighting fires, etc.

After a while he said Wanna see my favorite? We stepped around the end of the ladder truck and there was a 1927 American Le france in original well maintained condition. He said it was his goal to get it running again. It last ran about 20 years ago or so and he said he was told it threw a rod. I looked on the drivers side of the block and did not see any block damage so I am wondering if that is correct.

The engine has a one piece crankcase but three two cylinder blocks and heads. The valves appear to be on each side...opposite from each other, it appears and the heads have two plugs per cylinder. There are primer cups on each cylinder. The engine makes my Cummins look like a 240D so its a biggun'.

Anybody know what engine this is?

Anybody have a good one lying about?

kerry · #2 06-20-2014, 11:51 PM

Like this?

Hell. Yes. ’15 American-LaFrance 14.5 liter Speedster … ’nuff Said.*|*Hooniverse

kerry · #3 06-20-2014, 11:53 PM

1920-26 American LaFrance Model 2R T-head 855 CID Inline Six Fire Engine Motor For Sale

t walgamuth · #4 06-21-2014, 07:24 AM

Hell yes! It looks just like that. Thanks Kerry! I had a hunch one of us hopelessly ate up gearheads would know all about them. I'll forward the link to the firefighter.

engatwork · #5 06-21-2014, 07:53 AM

Puts the term "big block" into perspective.

barry12345 · #6 06-21-2014, 09:57 AM

Around that time period there was a fire engine that threw rods etc. The Stanton fire department had one restored maybe twenty years ago. Plus a governing device installed.

The restorers determined the engine had blown up several times in it's history. Yet the modern rebuilders where unable to determine why it blew up. Evidence of previous repairs for the problem where present.

TwitchKitty · #7 06-21-2014, 10:32 AM

Old engine stuff but maybe not this particular engine. Materials were different and engineering was done with a slide rule under the best of circumstances.

I remember old timers talking about crankshaft whip, IIRC. These were heavy, slow, torquey engines and the main bearings were too far apart to support the crank and it would twist up like a corkscrew. All hell could break loose if it were pushed.

There was a hill outside Scranton, PA that was really too steep for the trucks. The way to conserve the equipment was to go up in granny low with the engine at peak torque. There was a cable on the dash that hooked to the throttle linkage and served as a form of cruise control. The driver could and sometimes would walk alongside the truck, often smoking a cigarette.

INSIDIOUS · #8 06-21-2014, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

Old engine stuff but maybe not this particular engine. Materials were different and engineering was done with a slide rule under the best of circumstances.

I remember old timers talking about crankshaft whip, IIRC. These were heavy, slow, torquey engines and the main bearings were too far apart to support the crank and it would twist up like a corkscrew. All hell could break loose if it were pushed.

There was a hill outside Scranton, PA that was really too steep for the trucks. The way to conserve the equipment was to go up in granny low with the engine at peak torque. There was a cable on the dash that hooked to the throttle linkage and served as a form of cruise control. The driver could and sometimes would walk alongside the truck, often smoking a cigarette.

It is customary to smoke after throttling something

Air&Road · #9 06-21-2014, 11:19 AM

Looks like you got your answer. Before i read that i was going to offer that i thought it was their own motor because i remember seeing them in engine parts catalogs back in the sixties. I always thought it would be great to restore one of those old things.

Keep us posted.

t walgamuth · #10 06-21-2014, 11:24 AM

My next call is to my favorite machinist.

t walgamuth · #11 06-21-2014, 11:58 AM

We had a nice chat about it. I then emailed the fireman and suggested getting someone to drop the pan and survey actual damage. Apparently there are shops which will redo the babbit bearings. I have also heard of converting them to slipper bearings. Homer thinks rings and such are readily available. Perhaps the engine does not actually have a broken rod and it is just garbled information from two decades past.

Thanks guys!

kerry · #12 06-21-2014, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

We had a nice chat about it. I then emailed the fireman and suggested getting someone to drop the pan and survey actual damage. Apparently there are shops which will redo the babbit bearings. I have also heard of converting them to slipper bearings. Homer thinks rings and such are readily available. Perhaps the engine does not actually have a broken rod and it is just garbled information from two decades past.

Thanks guys!

The guy from whom I purchased my GMC truck had a Packard engine sitting on a pallet in his garage. He had rebuilt it for someone a few years ago but the guy had run the engine out of coolant and toasted the bearings. He was sending it off to get the babbit bearings redone. He told me the cost to do this was $1600 PER CYLINDER, if I remember correctly. I think the engine was a straight 8.

TwitchKitty · #13 06-21-2014, 01:12 PM

Old manuals have a section on pouring the babbitt bearings yourself. It was a simpler time. Old barns were used for manufacturing early automobiles.

This is the mold I created to make the babbitt insert main bearings for my 1 1

This link is from near the top of the list when I searched:

diy babbit bearings

kerry · #14 06-21-2014, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

Old manuals have a section on pouring the babbitt bearings yourself. It was a simpler time. Old barns were used for manufacturing early automobiles.

This is the mold I created to make the babbitt insert main bearings for my 1 1

This link is from near the top of the list when I searched:

diy babbit bearings

Nice explanation on how to do it.

t walgamuth · #15 06-21-2014, 01:40 PM

That's a lot of work there!