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  #16  
Old 08-24-2014, 03:37 PM
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Now that I'm a teacher I know what it's like. I'm pretty sure I don't ever get tenure since they did away with it. What I do get is low pay and students that aren't disciplined well. I'm hoping I can keep their attention with the projects I'm planning on doing.


I do wish the govt would spend more on education than aid it sends to other countries or heck the national defense fund. We need it, pay the teachers more, given the schools more money. I'm only allowed two reams of paper a month. Any more and it's out of my pocket! I found a half used ream in a random box in my room and I was ecstatic! I shouldn't be. But I was.
It'd be interesting to see the accounting of where all the money's going then, in that school system. No paper doesn't sound acceptable to me.
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  #17  
Old 08-24-2014, 03:49 PM
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Tenure, to me, sounds like something the Government created.

One of my 'slacker' Brothers sweated getting 'tenure' for years with his Gov't. job. Once you get it, it's the greatest thing there is. If you don't, in many cases there's nothing worse - is what I'm reading here.

The private sector's parallels would be; vested, or unionized.

Come to think of it, the Government has Unionized PORTIONS too.
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Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 08-24-2014 at 06:44 PM.
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  #18  
Old 08-24-2014, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
Politely, and on behalf of many others, that statement is repulsive and speaks volumes of one's experience, insight and character.
I agree, and appreciate that. Those who can do neither, spout cliches.

Actually Aklim, the precise quote is, "He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches." by George Bernard Shaw in "Maxims for Revolutionists". You could have perhaps come up with something a bit more original with which to needle your mother.
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  #19  
Old 08-24-2014, 05:51 PM
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I always heard it as "Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, administrate".

I keep hearing about the low pay teachers get, but according to salary.com, public school teachers in Carson City, NV have a median income of $54,288. Even the tenth percentile is $41,075. I didn't make that much when I was an engineer. The numbers for Reno are a tad lower, but still in the same ballpark.
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  #20  
Old 08-24-2014, 05:59 PM
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Or held accountable by the dean that doesn't agree with the lack of any real work? Just like why Venkman got fired from the college in Ghostbusters?

Keep a warm body in place because few worthwhile people will want to be around?
If the University sets up the rules as to who gets tenure and why then that is their business. No Deal can come along and say they don't like the deal that was made in the past and just change it; that's what tenure is really all about.
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  #21  
Old 08-24-2014, 06:17 PM
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One aspect of tenure, and the reason it exists, is to allow a Professor the freedom to teach new things. Things the Dean might not be smart enough to ever understand.

Einstein understood, from a math standpoint, that a nuclear device was possible. Edward Teller told everyone how to make a real bomb. To almost everyone on Earth, including the Deans of the schools they taught at, they sounded like crazy men who just wanted to blow billions of dollars on research that maybe 100 people in the entire world understood. None of these 100, by the way, were the Deans of a University.

Then Einstein moved on and Oppenheimer showed up and finally the world knew what a total Loon looked like. But even though no one could keep up with those wacky guys in New Mexico they knew enough to stay out of their way and let them work.

And this is the reason for tenure. No second guessing, no micromanaging. Just, hopefully, results.

The University of Texas is big on Tenure. It is one of the reasons their Professors are always picking up science awards.

The Bible warns us to not muzzle the Ox while it is treading out the oats, so why would anyone want to stop basic research? Because they don't understand it?
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  #22  
Old 08-24-2014, 06:21 PM
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If you don't think tenure is necessary at the high school level you're not familiar with the controversies about what gets taught in biology and history classes.
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  #23  
Old 08-24-2014, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
Politely, and on behalf of many others, that statement is repulsive and speaks volumes of one's experience, insight and character.
that saying is not exclusive to the public or private school teachers. My wife is a teacher and she nor I find it unaccurate or repulsive.
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  #24  
Old 08-24-2014, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
It'd be interesting to see the accounting of where all the money's going then, in that school system. No paper doesn't sound acceptable to me.
It's SOP in many schools- even the ones with money.
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  #25  
Old 08-24-2014, 07:24 PM
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If you don't think tenure is necessary at the high school level you're not familiar with the controversies about what gets taught in biology and history classes.
That's more of a problem in some areas of the country than in others. IOW, I don't think it's much of an issue outside of the bible belt.
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  #26  
Old 08-24-2014, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by elchivito View Post
I agree, and appreciate that. Those who can do neither, spout cliches.

Actually Aklim, the precise quote is, "He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches." by George Bernard Shaw in "Maxims for Revolutionists". You could have perhaps come up with something a bit more original with which to needle your mother.
I wasn't needling. Just telling her what I have seen in general, not that she agrees with me. I would love to see people being able to do, in the world outside academia, what they teach. Once in a while I might run across it but it is so rare, it is much easier to assume you won't see it except once in a blue moon. Besides, if it is true, why bother with being original or not? No need to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.
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Last edited by aklim; 08-24-2014 at 11:55 PM.
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  #27  
Old 08-24-2014, 11:42 PM
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If the University sets up the rules as to who gets tenure and why then that is their business. No Deal can come along and say they don't like the deal that was made in the past and just change it; that's what tenure is really all about.
I'm not sure I follow. I'm not suggesting going back on the agreement. You made a deal, it is a deal. Just don't go making any more stupid deals and honor the past deals.
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  #28  
Old 08-25-2014, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
I've see a lot of teachers who teach the subject matter but outside of academia, can't actually do. IOW I'd rather be taught business from someone who is actually running a business as opposed to someone who can spout theory but hasn't shown to run a successful business. So no, I don't consider teaching a subject ability to do more than in the academic world. My mother was the first female agriculture graduate in the young country. The illiterate farmers grew acres of crops. She tried her best but after 3 years and many dollars later, gave up on her flower garden. A poor example but there it is.
So your Math teacher can't add, your Physics teacher can't tell the difference between mass and density, and the English teacher can't spell? Your programming teacher can't code and your Music teacher can't read music?
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  #29  
Old 08-25-2014, 08:41 AM
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So your Math teacher can't add, your Physics teacher can't tell the difference between mass and density, and the English teacher can't spell? Your programming teacher can't code and your Music teacher can't read music?
I think you are somehow not following what I am saying. Not sure why. English, I don't really know what the real world application is. Math and Physics, are they merely able to teach the text or are they able to work in the real world OUTSIDE the school and know what the industry is like. Sure, my programming teacher can code. Can he hold a job in a company doing coding? If not, all he has is theory. In nursing, can the teacher really hold a job as a floor nurse and teach me how the floor is run or just out of a textbook and experience from 20 years ago?

Bottom line is, if academia closed up today, would they be able to use those skills they teach and get a job or would they be having a PhD stock shelves? I took a class where my instructor was a network administrator who actually worked in the real world. OTOH, I had many instructors that teach us theories but have not had a job in the outside world since who knows when. One I respect, the other, WGAS.
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  #30  
Old 08-25-2014, 08:56 AM
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I think you are somehow not following what I am saying. Not sure why. English, I don't really know what the real world application is.
No kidding....
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