It'd be interesting to see the accounting of where all the money's going then, in that school system. No paper doesn't sound acceptable to me.

Tenure, to me, sounds like something the Government created.

One of my 'slacker' Brothers sweated getting 'tenure' for years with his Gov't. job. Once you get it, it's the greatest thing there is. If you don't, in many cases there's nothing worse - is what I'm reading here.

The private sector's parallels would be; vested, or unionized.

Come to think of it, the Government has Unionized PORTIONS too.

I agree, and appreciate that. Those who can do neither, spout cliches.

Actually Aklim, the precise quote is, "He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches." by George Bernard Shaw in "Maxims for Revolutionists". You could have perhaps come up with something a bit more original with which to needle your mother.

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You're a daisy if you do.
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84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

I always heard it as "Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, administrate".

I keep hearing about the low pay teachers get, but according to salary.com, public school teachers in Carson City, NV have a median income of $54,288. Even the tenth percentile is $41,075. I didn't make that much when I was an engineer. The numbers for Reno are a tad lower, but still in the same ballpark.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.

If the University sets up the rules as to who gets tenure and why then that is their business. No Deal can come along and say they don't like the deal that was made in the past and just change it; that's what tenure is really all about.

One aspect of tenure, and the reason it exists, is to allow a Professor the freedom to teach new things. Things the Dean might not be smart enough to ever understand.

Einstein understood, from a math standpoint, that a nuclear device was possible. Edward Teller told everyone how to make a real bomb. To almost everyone on Earth, including the Deans of the schools they taught at, they sounded like crazy men who just wanted to blow billions of dollars on research that maybe 100 people in the entire world understood. None of these 100, by the way, were the Deans of a University.

Then Einstein moved on and Oppenheimer showed up and finally the world knew what a total Loon looked like. But even though no one could keep up with those wacky guys in New Mexico they knew enough to stay out of their way and let them work.

And this is the reason for tenure. No second guessing, no micromanaging. Just, hopefully, results.

The University of Texas is big on Tenure. It is one of the reasons their Professors are always picking up science awards.

The Bible warns us to not muzzle the Ox while it is treading out the oats, so why would anyone want to stop basic research? Because they don't understand it?

If you don't think tenure is necessary at the high school level you're not familiar with the controversies about what gets taught in biology and history classes.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

that saying is not exclusive to the public or private school teachers. My wife is a teacher and she nor I find it unaccurate or repulsive.

It's SOP in many schools- even the ones with money.

That's more of a problem in some areas of the country than in others. IOW, I don't think it's much of an issue outside of the bible belt.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.

I wasn't needling. Just telling her what I have seen in general, not that she agrees with me. I would love to see people being able to do, in the world outside academia, what they teach. Once in a while I might run across it but it is so rare, it is much easier to assume you won't see it except once in a blue moon. Besides, if it is true, why bother with being original or not? No need to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I'm not sure I follow. I'm not suggesting going back on the agreement. You made a deal, it is a deal. Just don't go making any more stupid deals and honor the past deals.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

So your Math teacher can't add, your Physics teacher can't tell the difference between mass and density, and the English teacher can't spell? Your programming teacher can't code and your Music teacher can't read music?

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

I think you are somehow not following what I am saying. Not sure why. English, I don't really know what the real world application is. Math and Physics, are they merely able to teach the text or are they able to work in the real world OUTSIDE the school and know what the industry is like. Sure, my programming teacher can code. Can he hold a job in a company doing coding? If not, all he has is theory. In nursing, can the teacher really hold a job as a floor nurse and teach me how the floor is run or just out of a textbook and experience from 20 years ago?

Bottom line is, if academia closed up today, would they be able to use those skills they teach and get a job or would they be having a PhD stock shelves? I took a class where my instructor was a network administrator who actually worked in the real world. OTOH, I had many instructors that teach us theories but have not had a job in the outside world since who knows when. One I respect, the other, WGAS.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

No kidding....

__________________
You're a daisy if you do.
__________________________________
84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting