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link 08-20-2014 10:54 AM

The Trouble With Tenure
 
The article below properly addresses part of a major hindrance in education, which is teachers who essentially work only to exploit their students as a means to a pay check.

The larger issue is that so many parents have no idea and perhaps no desire to encourage their children to excel. Lazy unproductive children become lazy unproductive adults, some of who become teachers, and so the process repeats.

I do agree that eliminating tenure or at the very least putting a much higher standard to permit it would be a good step. A 2nd step would be to increase teacher’s pay but only if they show they are the top, say 5% or 10% measured by their students test achievements.

It is a ridiculous that so many teachers have to essentially take a vow of poverty to do their job and endure it for years or decades before they can make a half reasonable wage.



DENVER — Mike Johnston’s mother was a public-school teacher. So were her mother and father. And his godfather taught in both public and private schools.

So when he expresses the concern that we’re not getting the best teachers into classrooms or weeding out the worst performers, it’s not as someone who sees the profession from a cold, cynical distance.

What I hear in his voice when he talks about teaching is reverence, along with something else that public education could use more of: optimism.

He rightly calls teachers “the single most transformative force in education.”

But the current system doesn’t enable as many of them as possible to rise to that role, he says. And a prime culprit is tenure, at least as it still exists in most states.

“It provides no incentive for someone to improve their practice,” he told me last week. “It provides no accountability to actual student outcomes. It’s the classic driver of, ‘I taught it, they didn’t learn it, not my problem.’ It has a decimating impact on morale among staff, because some people can work hard, some can do nothing, and it doesn’t matter.”

rest of the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/19/opinion/frank-bruni-the-trouble-with-tenure.html

aklim 08-20-2014 11:28 AM

Shocking. Guaranteed jobs doesn't give incentive to improve. Whoda thunk it? Only reason to have guaranteed jobs for a select few like the justice department to ensure that they aren't beholden to an individual, party, etc, etc for their job but not sure what else has good reason to have it still

elchivito 08-20-2014 04:30 PM

No tenure here. Never has been.

Diesel911 08-22-2014 08:12 PM

I don't know who would really want to be a Teacher. Pay is Poor and in Public Schools the working conditions are appalling because there is no discipline in the Class Rooms anymore

Lets say a High School Math Teacher is still going to be a Math Teacher when the retire; pay raises are not good. What I mean by that is it there is not a promotion for your unless you move up to Administration.

School District Administration extremely bureaucratic and political. Who you know is more important then what you can do or how well you do it.

You can watch the Los Angeles School District Meetings on TV and what you see is that the try all kinds of things but nothing they do works for any but a few Schools.

In a way Tenure is sort of an award for being in continuous Combat and surviving the Students, Parents and the Administration and no other meaning needs be attached to it.

Think of the Infantry Combat Badge = Tenure; it does not matter if you were a good Soldier or not.

kerry 08-22-2014 08:31 PM

The problem isn't tenure, it's getting high quality teacher candidates early in the process. In my experience, the best students are rarely education majors. Part of the reason for that is that there is very little content in EDU classes to challenge a serious student. You never see groups of EDU students in the hallways sweating bullets over whether they are ready for the exam the same way you see CHE or BIO students.

aklim 08-22-2014 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911 (Post 3376762)
I don't know who would really want to be a Teacher. Pay is Poor and in Public Schools the working conditions are appalling because there is no discipline in the Class Rooms anymore

Lets say a High School Math Teacher is still going to be a Math Teacher when the retire; pay raises are not good. What I mean by that is it there is not a promotion for your unless you move up to Administration.

School District Administration extremely bureaucratic and political. Who you know is more important then what you can do or how well you do it.

You can watch the Los Angeles School District Meetings on TV and what you see is that the try all kinds of things but nothing they do works for any but a few Schools.

In a way Tenure is sort of an award for being in continuous Combat and surviving the Students, Parents and the Administration and no other meaning needs be attached to it.

Think of the Infantry Combat Badge = Tenure; it does not matter if you were a good Soldier or not.

As I have said to my mom who was a teacher, those who cannot do, teach.

jt20 08-22-2014 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a (Post 3376778)
As I have said to my mom who was a teacher, those who cannot do, teach.


Politely, and on behalf of many others, that statement is repulsive and speaks volumes of one's experience, insight and character.

davidmash 08-22-2014 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jt20 (Post 3376841)
Politely, and on behalf of many others, that statement is repulsive and speaks volumes of one's experience, insight and character.

^^^^^^ this

aklim 08-23-2014 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jt20 (Post 3376841)
Politely, and on behalf of many others, that statement is repulsive and speaks volumes of one's experience, insight and character.

While it might not be all encompassing, my experience has shown some truth to it. Should it change, my opinion will too.

TheDon 08-23-2014 08:16 AM

Now that I'm a teacher I know what it's like. I'm pretty sure I don't ever get tenure since they did away with it. What I do get is low pay and students that aren't disciplined well. I'm hoping I can keep their attention with the projects I'm planning on doing.


I do wish the govt would spend more on education than aid it sends to other countries or heck the national defense fund. We need it, pay the teachers more, given the schools more money. I'm only allowed two reams of paper a month. Any more and it's out of my pocket! I found a half used ream in a random box in my room and I was ecstatic! I shouldn't be. But I was.

t walgamuth 08-23-2014 08:57 AM

Federal money to fund education is a small part. Mostly it is locally funded. The budget for education nationwide is a huge number. I bet it dwarfs the expenditure on foreign aid by at least 100 to one. Foreign aid is a nice target but last I heard it was less than 3% of the federal budget.

Kuan 08-23-2014 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim (Post 3376778)
As I have said to my mom who was a teacher, those who cannot do, teach.

Teaching is doing, and if you can't learn because you think the above is true then maybe you should teach.

aklim 08-23-2014 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuan (Post 3376972)
Teaching is doing, and if you can't learn because you think the above is true then maybe you should teach.

I've see a lot of teachers who teach the subject matter but outside of academia, can't actually do. IOW I'd rather be taught business from someone who is actually running a business as opposed to someone who can spout theory but hasn't shown to run a successful business. So no, I don't consider teaching a subject ability to do more than in the academic world. My mother was the first female agriculture graduate in the young country. The illiterate farmers grew acres of crops. She tried her best but after 3 years and many dollars later, gave up on her flower garden. A poor example but there it is.

Idle 08-24-2014 02:44 PM

I can see tenure at the University level. It allows a Prof to explore new theories without being held back by a Dean that does not agree with their views.

But at the hight school level? What does it accomplish? What purpose does it serve?

aklim 08-24-2014 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idle (Post 3377403)
I can see tenure at the University level. It allows a Prof to explore new theories without being held back by a Dean that does not agree with their views.

But at the hight school level? What does it accomplish? What purpose does it serve?

Or held accountable by the dean that doesn't agree with the lack of any real work? Just like why Venkman got fired from the college in Ghostbusters?

Keep a warm body in place because few worthwhile people will want to be around?


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