House Fire Update-Demo Has Begun! - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

suginami · #31 08-22-2014, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

Is anyone still looky looing Daryl Hall?

They sure are. Didn't you know the '80s are back in?

Hall & Oates were just inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this year.

He also has the show on cable, "Live at Daryl's House" as well as the renovation show on the DIY channel.

SwampYankee · #32 08-22-2014, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suginami

They sure are. Didn't you know the '80s are back in?

Hall & Oates were just inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this year.

He also has the show on cable, "Live at Daryl's House" as well as the renovation show on the DIY channel.

I know, I know.

I was born in '70 so the 80's were definitely in my formative years. Just picking on ol' Daryl.

SwampYankee · #33 08-22-2014, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

I think the proper engineering term for that beam is 'goofy arrangement'. Why not block the beam up to the floor level and put a decorative section on the bottom if that was the intention? However, it does look like it has stood the test of time so I'd say it's adequate.

That was my non-professional thought!

TwitchKitty · #34 08-22-2014, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simpler=Better

Litter box area for the cats, cut in a small swinging door. You'll thank me.

Cats are nasty little animals. A cat in the house constitutes an infestation and the insurance company should pay to remove it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

I think the proper engineering term for that beam is 'goofy arrangement'. Why not block the beam up to the floor level and put a decorative section on the bottom if that was the intention? However, it does look like it has stood the test of time so I'd say it's adequate.

I am a big fan of steel beams. Hell, steel buildings for that matter. Steel boats. If it's weak, slap some more steel on it. Weld it, hammer it, weld it some more.

I like your idea of opening up space downstairs.

Mölyapina · #35 08-22-2014, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

Cats are nasty little animals. A cat in the house constitutes an infestation and the insurance company should pay to remove it.

Says TwitchKITTY...?

Swamp, after contemplating your floor joists, I would have to say that the demo actually began in the '70s.

SwampYankee · #36 08-22-2014, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna

Swamp, after contemplating your floor joists, I would have to say that the demo actually began in the '70s.

Man, you ain't kidding!

my83300cd · #37 08-23-2014, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

The beam in question. 2x's bridging the gap between floor joists and beam. The white that you see above the beam is the ceiling on the other side of it.

View from the other side.

Looks like when the beam was put in it was trimmed out even with the door and window head trim. The 2x's are studded up to the joists- perhaps easier than getting beam into place and having to shim joist tight and then have to build down to have the opening trimmed out even with the door/windows headers.

Impressive plumber carpentry! Some of the best I've had the displeasure of seeing!

I've weatherstripped single pane wood windows rather than replaced them- yes, the single pane glass is still an issue, but the amount of air leakage through the perimeter and the meeting rails is unreal. Bronze Zero weatherstripping, or rubber gaskets do well- Fine Homebuilding has had several articles about it over the years. Can make the whole Historic/Landmark thing a non issue.

With all the walls open like this, I'd really consider closed cell polyiso insulation sprayed in- R value/inch of thickness is pretty impressive, and the closed cell nature acts as vapor barrier. Will also make the house much quieter from outside noise.

SwampYankee · #38 08-23-2014, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my83300cd

Looks like when the beam was put in it was trimmed out even with the door and window head trim. The 2x's are studded up to the joists- perhaps easier than getting beam into place and having to shim joist tight and then have to build down to have the opening trimmed out even with the door/windows headers.

Impressive plumber carpentry! Some of the best I've had the displeasure of seeing!

I've weatherstripped single pane wood windows rather than replaced them- yes, the single pane glass is still an issue, but the amount of air leakage through the perimeter and the meeting rails is unreal. Bronze Zero weatherstripping, or rubber gaskets do well- Fine Homebuilding has had several articles about it over the years. Can make the whole Historic/Landmark thing a non issue.

With all the walls open like this, I'd really consider closed cell polyiso insulation sprayed in- R value/inch of thickness is pretty impressive, and the closed cell nature acts as vapor barrier. Will also make the house much quieter from outside noise.

I went back last night to see how the demo progress was going (still had the den and bathroom left and they had gotten most of that done), and what I thought was 2x's in the pic are actually only 1x's so it would appear they were just a nailing surface to lay the lath.

I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure there was a wall with a doorway there and it was opened up at a later date. I could certainly be wrong.

The plumbing really is a mind blower. It's only a 1/2 bath, no tub, so the PO probably figured what's the harm?

The vent pipe may very well have become a structural component. Perhaps that may have contributed to it's condition under constant bending pressure?

Thanks for the window tips! I'll definitely look into that some more. We'll likely undertake refinishing and reglazing them ourselves to free up some coin to put elsewhere. Our house is a century or two+ newer than many in the neighborhood so it's not like it's a historic gem. Maybe in a hundred years...

I'll look into that spray-in insulation as well. I really like the idea of the combination vapor barrier and insulation. We're on a pretty busy street so sound insulation is a definite plus!

t walgamuth · #39 08-23-2014, 09:07 AM

That "beam" is truly a goofy arrangement. It appears to come up under a wall? Best guess is the area beyond that area is an addition and that "beam" is what is left of a ballon framed exterior wall.

I am not a fan of the foam insulation. I like old fashioned fiberglass with a visqueen vapor barrier, with an air barrier on the outside which admits water vapor. I believe the foam insulation may encourage condensation inside the framed wall. The wall needs to be able to breath if any moisture does form there.

I am speaking of northern climates where winter is a big factor. There is a band across tennesee and that area where no vapor barrier is indicated and in the south I guess they need it on the outside of the wall.

I won't second guess your engineer but it is my guess that that is very weak unless it is holding up next to nothing. I'd really need to know what is resting on it...how many sf floor and how many sf of roof to make any recommendation on its correct sizing. It must be enough to carry at least the unloaded structure but the correct sizing must be designed to carry snow load of perhaps 30#/SF or more perhaps in the NE, and what is called live load which includes people standing belly to belly and elbow to elbow plus any furniture etc.

So if you can jump up and down over it without shaking the whole area of the house it might be pretty good. I bet if you give the jump test it will not pass.

SwampYankee · #40 08-23-2014, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

That "beam" is truly a goofy arrangement. It appears to come up under a wall? Best guess is the area beyond that area is an addition and that "beam" is what is left of a ballon framed exterior wall.

I am not a fan of the foam insulation. I like old fashioned fiberglass with a visqueen vapor barrier, with an air barrier on the outside which admits water vapor. I believe the foam insulation may encourage condensation inside the framed wall. The wall needs to be able to breath if any moisture does form there.

I am speaking of northern climates where winter is a big factor. There is a band across tennesee and that area where no vapor barrier is indicated and in the south I guess they need it on the outside of the wall.

I won't second guess your engineer but it is my guess that that is very weak unless it is holding up next to nothing. I'd really need to know what is resting on it...how many sf floor and how many sf of roof to make any recommendation on its correct sizing. It must be enough to carry at least the unloaded structure but the correct sizing must be designed to carry snow load of perhaps 30#/SF or more perhaps in the NE, and what is called live load which includes people standing belly to belly and elbow to elbow plus any furniture etc.

So if you can jump up and down over it without shaking the whole area of the house it might be pretty good. I bet if you give the jump test it will not pass.

Yes, there is a wall directly above it in the upstairs hallway. It's almost as if it's purpose was to hold the front wall of the house in. The funny things is that before everything was torn out, there was no hint of any of the "interesting" lack of engineering. Even with 3 growing boys constantly rough-housing and jumping around upstairs and down. Maybe all of that plaster and lath was really holding things together!

They've been using spray-in up this way for a decade now. I'm not familiar with it now but will to some research. No matter what we do, the house will be considerably more efficient (and comfortable) than it was.

I'm afraid to do the jump test now, that's for sure!

t walgamuth · #41 08-23-2014, 09:52 AM

Start out with gentle jumps.

SwampYankee · #42 08-23-2014, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Start out with gentle jumps.

None of my jumps could be considered "gentle." Perhaps some light weight shifting...

t walgamuth · #43 08-23-2014, 11:52 AM

There you go!

Oh, by the way, with the interior plaster stripped off it would be a good time to assess if the house is square and plumb or not. If not it can be pulled and braced so it does not shift again. This can be done with come alongs and steel wind bracing strap. If the house is presently square the straps are still a good idea since drywall will not provide the structural assistance that plaster will.

barry12345 · #44 08-25-2014, 12:37 PM

That beam is something else. I suspect when they eliminated a wall where the beam is someone decided it was too much work to insert the beam flush to the floor joists. Although to me it should have not been that hard to do.

The beam rests on one door header only in your picture so someone was not really thinking. Also the additional downward protusion into the space was increased. They should have at an minumimum put at least three two by eights on edge above the doors jack posts. Since there was no depth available for that a piece of I beam could have helped.

At least what I see is fixable. On occasion I see errors that are only fixable if at all requiring massive effort. This does not seem to be one of them. Your roof line still straight? Depending on how the house was framed would determine that I suppose. That beam has quite a sag in it.

Tom always has some interesting point or another. I feel that even if the walls are foamed the vapour barrier is not complete as the edge of the studs and headers etc are not sealed. So your rot proposition over time then has some real merit.

You install a real vapour barrier over the foam job should be mandatory. Plus it completes the vapour barrier. On his thin walls you might have to foam to get any real R value going.

I have not foamed a new wall yet myself. Cost of foaming is coming down fast here so I may look at it soon enough. Thanks to you I will give it further consideration though. One thing for sure is I would use totally sealed electrical boxes in foamed walls. I do not think the current foams are even fire retardant at all. The fumes from burning or even just smouldering are far too toxic to ignore..

t walgamuth · #45 08-25-2014, 01:20 PM

I feel that with the foam and visqueen inside that you have essentially two vapor barriers and hence a good chance for condensation on the inside of the foam. Everything external to the vapor barrier should be ventilated with respect to water vapor.

The toxic fumes from burning foam is a big concern as well....not to mention gasses given off (potentially).