Its all I use, PEX rocks!

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

That is nothing like anything I would call a collar tie. Without more information I cannot say what purpose it served or serves. I think it is true though that it was not kept there for no reason.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

There's nothing wrong whatsoever with using the spray foam insulation. It is ideal in every climate. If you have a water condensation, or breathing problem - you deal with that separately. One has nothing to do with the other in a properly constructed and vented home. If you're trapping and collecting moisture - you're doing it all wrong in the first place. Spray foam doesn't cause moisture. It insulates magnificently.

I gave this some thought while driving to the cottage last night. Plus I tend to agree. Basically as long as there is a 6 mil plastic vapour barrier installed correctly all should be well.

Without the vapor barrier and exposed wood surfaces existing .There probably may be a long term issue. The vapor barrier also reduces the chances of any long term outgassing of the foam product from getting insider the dwelling. Since the two components are mixed at the gun there will be times where the mix may not be well balanced. If this happened no telling how long some outgassing might occur. Our vapour barriers by code in Nova Scotia have to be cemented together making one positive inside bag now. Even the floor seams have to have acoustic sealant applied.

I think the confusion is based on it acts as it's own vapor barrier and that is probably totally true with the closed cell foams especially. Just that there would be absolutely no vapor barrier existing at the studs etc.

I see no advantage to using closed versus open cell foam with a proper vapor barrier. Especially if the open cell foam is cheaper and has a similar R value. I do not know if the foam is subject to shrinkage over time as well. In other words establishing a slight gap between the stud adhesion area.

One other thing is we have noticed is when removing plastic siding that the tyback or external basic wind seal even though it also lets the house breath at the same time had turned to basically just dust. Some of these homes where not that old either. My problem is some water gets behind the plastic widows we use even with the headers I install at the top edge to detour the water somewhat out past the edges. I on this basis do not consider the tyback to be a permanent product. If that barrier fails the water is going to get on the sheathing. I have seriously weighed waterproofing in areas where water ingress may eventually occur alongside and under window units. Alongside doors might not be a bad ideal either.

A home is a package deal. You want to insulate the package where necessary, and let it breathe too as necessary. If breathing means you need to take steps to de-humidify it, then that's what you do. If the home is manufacturing and trapping excessive humidity on it's own, that needs to be addressed and rectified.

By tyback do you mean "Tyvek"?

I have not made a study of sprayed in insulation. I personally know of cases where condensation has caused serious moisture problems. One house had heavy termite infestation because of water infiltration. Also I have seen condensation create amounts of water that are difficult to imagine in places where there is little insulation or gaps in insulation.

I also know of people who had trouble with frame houses and used styrofoam sheathing outside fiberglass insulation. The styrofoam acted as a vapor barrier and condensation occurred causing deterioration of the frame structure. Problems of mold, condensation and water loving insects are all possibilities in northern climates where vapor barriers are needed on the warm side of structures.

The foamed in insulation has always given me the willies because of off gassing, possible toxic chemicals and problems when it acts as a second vapor barrier. I have always used fiberglass insulation in my walls with visqueen vapor barrier applied on the inside. This allows the wall to breath from the outside and dry itself.

in some recent reading I have come to understand that in the deep south a vapor barrier is required on the outside of the walls and some areas such as tennessee don't need them at all.

For the last 40 or so years I have been building with visqueen vapor barriers, and as long as it has been available I have used the Tyvek air barriers. If I am involved in a new building construction I will do some investigation on the spray in insulations before making my specifications final, but at this moment I would use the same familiar specification as I have for so long with successful results.

I also use plywood sub sheathing on floors, solid wood flooring and cabinets using solid wood and plywood, no partical board or OSB.

When I was young and more courageous I once used an off brand rubber roofing and it caused trouble. I lost a client over that (for future work).

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Yes tyvek is the products trade name. I was just uncertain if it was universal across north America. It may be some type of chemical reaction between certain types of sheathing and the product that turns it to basically just dust sometimes.

Because of cost and some other factors like convention . I still batt outside walls above grade. I do use 1 1/2 foam on the outside as well though. We are pretty far north remember.

Only if it passes the Bogart movie test though. You put your lips together and see if you can easily blow through the product. You cannot whistle through it unfortunately as Lauren Bacall who reciently passed away suggested. Still you should encounter little resistance.

Otherwise there is so much heat loss on studs etc. You can see it on the plastic siding when cold. Or at least this far north you can. To me it is just a good cost effective solution. Anything like this recovers it's initial cost quickly enough this far north as well. You just nail 2x3s around any openings over the sheathing. Put the foam and tyvek on and nail the windows and doors to them with their flanges.

I once went to a real northern climate in Canada where they had steel studded up the development. The heat loss through those steel studs was insane from a visual perspective.

The cheaper 1 1/2 styrofoam is wide open in this test so I just install it and put the tyback over it as the foam will allow moisture and wind through it as well. It also is a product of much less density than the closed cell stuff. About half the price as well.

I too have also seen people slapping the 2x8 sheets of closed cell insulation as used sub grade on their structures and even taping the seams. Or using aluminium faced foam. At one time the only foam that had aluminium foil incorporated was the true urethane foams. Really high R value stuff. This is really asking for trouble as the moisture just cannot exit through either product.. Although it in itself is a 100 percent wind barrier. It also unfortunately is a 100 percent moisture barrier as well.

I have also once or twice watched people put the open cell foam board below grade on outside walls. I just assumed they knew absolutely nothing about foams. They will have increased their r value by absolutly nothing if the product sees enough dampness.

I try to get douglas fir plywood cheap for sub flooring when possible. Typical eastern soft spruce plywood up here is only about half as strong. Plus can rot fairly easily yet is still much better than osb board in that respect. We never see many types of plywood products that are vended in the middle states and lower up here.

We had an empty flatbed once and saw some 3/4 ply of a variety I had never seen before. Some type of western wood. I was going to have a few lifts of it put on the truck. Seemed very strong but since I was totally unaware of its charactaristics passéd it by. The price was really right though at 15.00 a sheet.. I also saw none of our common types there either.

I had gone down with a friend of mine as I knew he was returning empty and was going to load a 240d on the truck near there. With a 55 foot flatbed there was room for the car and some skids of that plywood. It was yellow western pine or something like that. Our eastern pine is very soft in comparison. As it turned out we could not find a place locally there to load the car on the flatbed so I drove it home.

I use 1.5" of blue Styrofoam on the outside of foundations too....have since the early eighties.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Code here now is insulation both inside and outside the basement walls. Wall studs even on a bungalow are 2x8s. They will currently allow 2x6s with two inches of breathable Styrofoam though on the sheathing as well.

Wow. What part of Canada are you in?

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"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."

What R value are they going for?

We had to switch from 2x4 to 2x6 a couple of years ago because you can't get R19 in a 2x4 wall.

What about double 2x4 walls, seems like 2x8's are kind of a waste and PITA to deal with.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Nova Scotia. Since we have so much water in close proximity. Relatively speaking our heating degree days are probably lesser than inland Maine.

I think the powers that be see energy costs rising seriously ahead. Plus new construction of additional generating facilities is trying to be avoided. A very large percentage of homes here are either getting air to air heat pumps or they are being retrofitted. Oil companies are losing a lot of customers at about a thousand dollars currently to fill a two hundred gallon tank locally.

I have not done an exterior 2x8 wall in a house yet but 2x6 has probably been code here for twenty years now on exterior walls. I really preffer the 2x6 walls and exterior bead foam. I was actually doing this when only 2x6 was code.

With the addition of optional off prime time energy furthering cost reductions to half with a storage heater included in the price. You may or may not use this. Half price energy is also on all weekends totally.all weekday evenings otherwise. A remote sensing of hours timer on the sixty gallon water tanks that only allow them to function on cheap energy. With them being installed in really well insulated boxes. This makes them as efficient as instant demand heaters but even far more so as they store hot water very well between the more expensive recharge periods. Where the instant supply heater would have to fire up.

Average cost for materials to build the 60 gallon water heater insulated box is about 100.00. They are so efficient that if you remove the well insulated closure door the metal skin of the insulated water heater sits at the hot water temperature. The enclosure has a value on all six sides if you include the top and bottom of R24 plus a reflective barrier of aluminium foil I glue to the foam to minumise the strong radiant energy travel that is still pretty much ignored today too often.

I assume without experimenting it may be about a twenty five percentage points of heat losses today. I also incorporate a foil barrier in all outside walls and ceilings with an inch airspace between the foil and the inner plastic vapor barrier. Although this means you have to buy a cheap repeater amplifier to get good cellphone service inside the dwelling.

.For a fee initially of three thousand dollars you can heat even more reasonably with heat pumps. A small one ton air to air heat exchanger with a little back up for those very few nights per year that they are very inefficient. Can heat a 1300 square foot modern house here. Some people are not using their backup systems at all and seem to be getting by. These people have the better brand heat pumps as well of course. There are a lot of inefficient cheapies out there in the marketplace.

I do kind of study insulation as well and have for a long time. On a typical attic I install two layers of six inch batts. Then blow about six inches of cellulose on top. The reason for the blown in stuff is two fold. It catches any gaps between the fibreglass batts of course. More importantly with time it seems to form a slight crust.

When I looked at fiberglass insulation in attics years ago. I felt there was always at least some air movement impacting the R value of the last two inches or more of the fiberglass batts at least to some extent. Primarily convection currents I thought. Hard also to get the lower portions of the trusses covered properly as well without some gaps here and there without the cellulose.

I wanted to seal this and the cellulose seems to do it well and still breath well enough. A slight crust forms over time when the paper product reacts with normal huimidity etc. I suspect. I use the fiberglass batts in the attic primarily as they do not settle basically from my experience.

My vapor barriers are really tight though as well. Actually it is not enough in code to use just six mil plastic vapor barriers. You have to pay somewhat more to get legal six mil plastic with the porosity reduced by manufacturing process standards. I have always considered this somewhat of an overkill but it is code. Also 12 inches of fibreglass in the attics is no longer code. You have to have a minumin of fifteen inches but I go a total of eighteen initially feeling the cellulose will settle a little as well. So I am looking for a long term of R 50 in attics at least.

Does all this effort and cost pay off? For example we are selling one excess house this year. It burns one tank of oil per winter. It was built in 1954 and I retrofitted it. It is still a buyers market but that feature will help move it quicker than a comparable. We would hold it for another year or so but the sellers market here appears quite a distance away.

We built a superinsulated home in 85. 12" sidewalls with fiberglass. It also has two story high south facing greenhouse/sunspace. It originally had rock storage in the basement but it was abandoned after about ten years as the humidity in summer started growing mildew. Otherwise everything is still holding up well.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.