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  #1  
Old 12-08-2014, 04:23 PM
JB3 JB3 is offline
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housing court next week, advice and pointers?

very very long and ridiculous story, but im in the process of removing a family of 6 from a single family dwelling, and its getting as bloody and drawn out as it can possibly be.

Bizzare twist is the tenant is hopelessly off in la la land and has the belief that her eviction is some kind of sales tactic. They had an option to buy that ended in september, and this woman still thinks shes buying the property, even though its been 5 months since we asked her for a purchase and sales contract.

For the last two months we have been grinding through the eviction process, and finally, still in la la land, the tenant has refused to come to an agreement on when she will leave in mediation sessions, so now its time for court.

Anyway, im sure many of us have headed to court, any advice or pointers?

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Old 12-08-2014, 04:26 PM
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you going in with a lawyer?
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  #3  
Old 12-08-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by iwrock View Post
you going in with a lawyer?
I am lawyered up, the tenant is not.
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  #4  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:01 PM
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Nothing to offer but wishing you good luck, JB!

My grandfather had several rentals and had a couple ugly evictions. Back in my college and early post-college days, I lived in them in lieu of rent after the deadbeats were escorted out to keep an eye on the place and to fix up the damage they did and clean up the disgusting messes they left.

I paid for nothing and think my grandfather made out in our deal!
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Old 12-08-2014, 06:05 PM
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Good luck John !!!!!!!!!
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  #6  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:39 PM
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  #7  
Old 12-08-2014, 07:59 PM
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Words to remember for anyone who rents, as long as you continue to PAY rent, you are almost impossible for a landlord to remove. I never encountered this situation. The court doesnt see anyone in any hardship, and theres no point not cashing the check if they can show they issued one to the court.

In our situation we need to sell the place, but it cant be shown with this family in there as its messy and shows terrible.

They love it though and are trying to prevent any sale except to them, BUT, they refuse to produce or sign a contract, yet paradoxically are some of the best tenants weve ever had, always pay in time and full.

We entertained the delay and excuses for a purchase and sale contract for almost half a year until their lease finally expired
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:06 PM
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Just keep raising their rent annually as much as law permits till they either buy, move out, or you find the income sufficient. Why mess with a good thing?
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2014, 09:20 PM
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Just keep raising their rent annually as much as law permits till they either buy, move out, or you find the income sufficient. Why mess with a good thing?
The building is not profitible. Last year we lost approximately 5k on it with major failures all said and done, even with it rented out.

Really it needs to be owner occupied. Add that to it being 140 miles away, makes it a pain to repeatedly repair. Selling it is the correct move.
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Old 12-08-2014, 10:38 PM
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Tricky. Good luck!
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  #11  
Old 12-09-2014, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
The building is not profitible. Last year we lost approximately 5k on it with major failures all said and done, even with it rented out.

Really it needs to be owner occupied. Add that to it being 140 miles away, makes it a pain to repeatedly repair. Selling it is the correct move.
Do you view that as a loss of Profit or increasing the value of your the Building?

As long as you did your part legally and have proof of that I don't seen an issue.

I think the worst outcome would be if the Judge decided you had to sell to them. If that happens your Attorney needs to get the Judge to set up a deadline for the now Tenant to start buying or go.
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
We entertained the delay and excuses for a purchase and sale contract for almost half a year until their lease finally expired
First off don't talk unless your lawyer tells you and guides you in what to say.

The above quote can be misinterpreted by a court as your implicit approval to NOT hold by the strict terms of the 'right of first refusal' you seem to have entered with the tenant.

Judge can think "why did you wait so long after the agreement?, so, since you did, obviously the strict agreement terms are not very important and the situation may have become worse since the landlord did not act immediately."

Being Mr. Nice guy usually earns hardship. Ask me how I know.

Do not recall or volunteer any past verbal communications regarding your agreeing to postpone or delay the agreement etc.. "I don't recall" is good enough.

Just say the agreement (and lease) is expired and the house needs to sell.

Don't embellish uselessly. "lose lips, sink ships".

You could also raise the rent to double since the lease is expired.

Is it a year to year or monthly after the lease term is up?

In any event, you can set the new rent as high as you want.

If they don't pay, they get evicted.

As a matter of fact, even now, you could probably give them the 30 day notice of new lease terms: new rent.

So later regardless of outcomes, they owe more rent. Redux process- fail safe?

They may be the best tenants you have had and may have their reasons for the wrinkled relationship but, put that aside and stick to facts. Your lawyer ought to be able to cut through the junk.

Especially if you have rent control junk imposing on your rental business.

Dress in a blue colored business suit.

Good luck.
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  #13  
Old 12-09-2014, 11:30 AM
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Do you view that as a loss of Profit or increasing the value of your the Building?
I view it as the building is in the red to operate as a rental. Rental income included, we are in the hole 5k on that building once taxes, maintenance, and the series of continuous problems is accounted for on the yearly ledger.

Quote:
As long as you did your part legally and have proof of that I don't seen an issue.

I think the worst outcome would be if the Judge decided you had to sell to them. If that happens your Attorney needs to get the Judge to set up a deadline for the now Tenant to start buying or go.
some clarification is needed, when I said option to buy, I meant that we told them they could put in an offer on the building if they wanted to buy it, and we would consider it. Now we have no interest in dealing with them and want them out.

some more info on the issue-

January 2014 we told the tenants that at the end of their lease in June, the lease would not be renewed as the building needed to be vacated to sell it.

They stated they were interested in possibly buying it instead of moving out.

We worked out a deal where they would go to a month to month while we debated it.

Arrived at a price seller and buyer both agreed to in july, and told them to send us a purchase and sales contract plus deposit and we would sign it.

They immediately went on a 3 week vacation.

Returned from vacation, still no contract, our lawyer sends them a contract instead to review and sign.

End of august comes around, no contract and no contact, so we set september as the final lease date assuming they were wasting our time.

2 weeks till the end of september, sent a notice reminding them that they need to be fully moved out at the end of the lease. Get notice back that they are buying the building and why should they move. Tell them to get us a contract and a deposit. They say we cant do it before another 2 week vacation all of the end of september.

arrive back sept 29th, no contract. First rolls around, notice to quit is delivered by the sheriff. Eviction process begins.

Eviction process proceeds, but tenant continues to affirm they are buying the building and its unfair they should have to move. They are either devious, stupid, or deviously stupid.

3 housing court meetings happen with last minute excuses, tenant sending over preposterous contracts at 9pm the night before, ect. Delay tactic after delay tactic, and the tenant refuses to agree to a move out date, forcing this issue to go to trial eventually.

Where we are now is between that 3rd meeting and the trial date. Realistically, we are looking at sometime 2 to 3 months from now for a final eviction, meaning that these people will have stayed a full half a year past their lease ending, and made us miss at least one sale season. Im hoping to hit the spring market with this house now.
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Old 12-09-2014, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unkl300d View Post
First off don't talk unless your lawyer tells you and guides you in what to say.

The above quote can be misinterpreted by a court as your implicit approval to NOT hold by the strict terms of the 'right of first refusal' you seem to have entered with the tenant.

Judge can think "why did you wait so long after the agreement?, so, since you did, obviously the strict agreement terms are not very important and the situation may have become worse since the landlord did not act immediately."

.
I should clarify that there has been no agreement, only our willingness to review an offer from them. That willingness lasted 5-6 months before we were tired of them. Way more by play beside the above bald outline, but the end of the story is they will eventually be removed and have zero legal standing, just its taking forever.
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:21 PM
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Just my two cents and probably worth less then that. Seems to me the tenants are on a month to month if they have been paying, difficult to undo since that is the terms the lease is operating under. If the tenant is is default less difficult.

Time, headaches and money. I would calculate the the money involved. A dispossessory still must be followed up with an eviction and then the likelihood of non payment in the interim. Add to that the cost of clean up after an eviction and costs can soar.

Time to consider a pay off. What would you be willing to pay for immediate vacancy. How much money does the tenant need to move on. Each party has their price, find it. If they are close work it out. Don't let the principal of the matter interfere with finding the most cost effective way to terminate the tenancy.

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