Ford took $6 billion in federal loans and as far as I am aware, still has not paid it back.

I have to question why Ford pays their CEO $18 million while Costco pays theirs under $3 million.

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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

I don't suppose you have any more info on the Ford $6 billion? All I found was a loan with repayment terms to be paid by 2022, which seems a little early to be complaining about not being paid back.

As for the differences between Costco and Ford, while I'm sure there are many, and can likely be the subject of years of study, it seems that the two are entirely different types of companies. And at present, they seem to be doing different things financially. I would tend to think that the type of talent required to "hold the course" is different than the type of talent it takes to turn the whole thing around.

I'm not trying to defend the $48 million, that does seem a bit high to me, but rather to discuss the thought that somehow a company that has the ability to pay a CEO multi-millions ought to pay a floor-sweeper more than $30,000 a year.

MV

My main point was that it was a fed loan not a standard bank loan (no bank would lend to them). Secondly you had a company run very poorly and the CEO was taking in a huge salary. So, CEO salaries (given my links above) do not seem to be tied very closely to performance.

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

If CEOs were paid too much and bent on draining the company, don't you think that share holders would have something to say about this?

How many people in this thread are applying for CEO positions? Should be an easy job right?

Even smaller companies can have a CEO, perhaps you can start there. For example, there are ~ 250 people at the privately held company where I work and we have a board and a CEO.

There are two choices in life:

Do nothing but complain that the big man / govt is holding the little man down.

Work on becoming the big man / sacrifice to put your kids on the right path to become the big man.

What will you choose?

There are a lot more than two choices.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

From reading your signature, you have 2 cars and I know you race one of them. You do realize that someone without a car is calling you a greedy bastard.

I do not see where anyone said what you stated in your post. I have not seen anyone say they are draining the company due to their salary. Shareholders are getting screwed all the time. Look at one of the links I posted where it addresses the number of CEO's who were incompetent, fired or committed fraud yet received millions in salaries.

No one said it was an easy job either.

What I have said is that I think some CEO salaries are not commensurate with what they bring to the table. I cannot think of anything short of solving world hunger, diseases or unlimited clean power that would be worth $145 million salary. I think BOD's if they were truly concerned about the companies and encouraging success we would not have CEO's running companies into the ground and walking away with millions. If the BOD's were true to the company they would write contracts that prevent this type of behavior. They don't. Why?

Léo Apotheker walked away with $13 million. Tom Horton was going to walk away with $20 million (thankfully that was in violation of Bankruptcy law). Walt Havenstein walked away with $20 million even though his leadership cost stock holders money, employees lost their jobs and he ran the company into the ground. Richard Fuld took in over $466 million dollars from 2001-2007. His company set the record for the largest bankruptcy in US history. You might recognize the name - Lehman Brothers. The list is quite long with stories like this.

According to Sarah Anderson, 38% of the CEO's listed in WAll Street Journals annual executive pay survey were either bailed out, canned or convicted of fraud.

According to this Forbes article, there was a study conducted that concluded the higher a CEO is paid, the worse the firm does over thenext three years.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

I am sure it is more than six times harder to manage the design, develop, and manufacture an automobile. I also left out dealing with the UAW, competing with foreign imports as compared to stocking shelves with cheap goods.

Considering that the US auto industry went from top of the pile to the bottom of the pile and considering that all Ford was on the verge of bankruptcy and the other 2 did go bankrupt there might be something to what you say. I hope they can find someone who knows what they are doing to run the companies. Perhaps they need to pay their CEO less. According the study in Forbes, that might help them. Obviously paying them obscene amount of money did not work.

The founder of Costco built the company from nothing to a billion dollar company who's so k is worth close to $150 a share. Last I read he is on the road about 250 days a year and took a hands on approach to running the company. He did all that for less than $3 mill a year. What did the Ford CEO do to earn his salary?

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Ford: $8,780,000,000 in profit last year.

Costco: About $2,000,000,000

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

What's your point? CEO a makes less than CEO b, therefore CEO b should make less? They are very different companies with different supply chains, different products, different competitors, etc.


Sent from an abacus

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TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

A retail store is more of a trucking company that delivers goods than a manufacturing company.

Costco sells thousands of low cost product types, Ford sells a pain full few high cost product types. If a Costco product does not sell well, it won't hurt the bottom line much and can be factored in as a business expense. If a Ford model does not sell well, it has a major impact on the bottom line.

A company like Ford has a huge product liability to cover where Costco not so much.

There are ways to pull $ out of a company run by it's founder so don't think that $ 3 million is all he pulls out. . ... The company I work for is privately held. The son bought a piece of near by vacant property 4 years ago then "rented" it to the company.

Recently, the "company" purchased the still empty lot from said son at nearly 4X of the original purchase price ( Son bought at slightly over what it was worth at 85K , sold for 325 K ) All of this is public record through deed transfers and not a rumor. I'm guessing that in another 4 years the son will buy back at market, sit on it for a few years then sell back to company at 4X again.

Many companies have sub companies that provide services to the main company. The Costco CEO might only get 3 M from the parent, but does he get more from other divisions? ( Trucking, warehousing, property management and so on. )

A CEO at a privately held company generally "owns" the business and can sell out to make more $, where a non owner CEO , for the most part, only has yearly compensation. What is Costco worth if the owner sold it?

Not at all although I think a majority of them make far more than can be justified their performance. The assertion was made that CEO salaries are based on the market and the CEO performance. I have just pointing out that I do not think that is the case. Fully 38% of the CEO's in one of the studies I posted received bail out for their company, were canned because of poor performance or were under investigation for fraud. Another study indicate that the CEO's who received very high salaries typically saw a downward trend in company performance for the next 3 years. Also if you look at CEO salary here in the US vs the rest of the world, there is a huge discrepancy.

I think CEO salaries are wholly unjustified and certainly not based on market needs.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Ford has plenty of commercial debt on its balance sheet.

The Fed loan was the ATVM program. Ford (5.9b), Tesla and Nissan were three who received money from this program.

Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loan Program is a $25 billion direct loan program funded by Congress in fall 2008 to provide debt capital to the U.S. automotive industry for the purpose of funding projects that help vehicles manufactured in the U.S. meet higher mileage requirements and lessen U.S. dependence on foreign oil. This program is unrelated to the United States Treasury Department's Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) which has been providing bailout funding to two of the big three U.S. automakers.....

Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ford is paying this back at a rate of 591m per year and at 12/31/13 owed 5.1 b.

Take an hour and learn how effective chief executives work....or at least the first 15 minutes. If the Ford BOD gave Mulally 55 million in stock options when he retired, it was money well earned in my opinion.

"Leaders Serve"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIwz1KlKXP4